What to do with a close-coupled WC siphon when nuts are rusted solid?

[MJ Ray]

I found Message-ID: in this newsgroup describing how to remove and fit the siphon on a closed-couple WC cistern. All well and good, but it looked like a lot of work just to replace the flap valve, so I decided to replace the current one-piece siphon with a multi-piece one so it will be a lot simpler next time. I turned off the water, drained the cistern and disconnected the inlet pipe. So far, so good.

Problem: the close-coupling wing-nuts have rusted solid.

I've attacked them with penetrating oil and there's not enough space to get anything more than the smallest grips on them. No joy. What do I do?

My first idea is to cut the one-piece siphon down to a pipe inside, unscrew it, screw in and seal the pipe part of the new multi-piece siphon, then fit the rest of the multi-part siphon. Is that doomed to fail?

I guess the alternatives are to try to cut the bolts off (tricky in a restricted space) or give up and call in a plumber.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

[dave]

I used my rotozip with the grinder attachment to remove the nuts from my neighbours toilet. I ground so far through and then used molegrips to break the wing nuts off. Dave

[Chris Bacon]

Can you get a Junior hacksaw on the nuts? Can you get at it with a (piece of) hacksaw blade? Could you get hydrochloric acid on the rust (the oil might not be very useful, but the acid will dissolve rust (and metal, but not porcelain)? Can you get one of those Dremmel-type things on it?

[meow2222]

You should still be able to use the WC in the normal way.

NT

[zymurgy]

Or this

Will work.

If you haven't got access to do either, you'll have to do something brutal with mole grips.

P.

[MJ Ray]

[e-mail]

The flap valve is failing. Do you not normally flush yours? :^)

[MJ Ray]

Thanks for all answers so far. I've not even space to get the mole grips onto the nuts (tiled high step on floor behind toilet), much less a junior hacksaw. I'm bad with acid, too.

So far, it looks like I'll either try a stubby bit of hacksaw blade with a clamped handle, or find a rotary cutter. :-/

[Chris Bacon]

Is it a flap valve (I assume not, as you're talking about a siphon), or is it the diaphragm in the siphon?

[mike]

"dave" wrote in news:4zNag.2449$ [e-mail]:

Fixing the neighbours crappy old rusted up bog?

There's neighbourly... :-)

mike

[Chris Bacon]

Might've been sabotage...

[MJ Ray]

Erm, let me go check the diagram.

The Collins DIY Manual labels it as a flap valve.

The replacement siphon's instructions labels it a diaphragm.

I call it the thick sheet which sits on top of the bit pulled up by the handle, which I can't get out by unhooking the handle, because the siphon housing gets in the way, due to the stupid choice of design.

You are in a maze of twisty jargon, all different.

What do you call it and how do I get at it? :-)

Thanks,

[Chris Bacon]

I call it a diaphragm, 'cos a flap valve (spit!) is a new device invented for easy push-button operation, and much water wasting. To get at it, you have to, erm, remove the siphon, unless you're a whizz at Origami, and can make a flat spiral out of suitable plastic... sorry!

[Mike Dodd]

Had exactly the same problem helping a mate when he moved house. What we eventually found worked was filing flats across the thread of the bolt (to give good grip to a pair of pliers), then using (can't remember if it was a wing-nut or conventional nut) another pair of pliers or a spanner to wind the nut off. Think the problem was the rusted mess was spinning in the cistern, and the above was the only way we found to get good purchase on both thread and nut.

[mike]

Mike Dodd wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Think the problem was the

That brings back memories - I fixed B-I-L's with the same prob as ther were nuts just below the cistern to retain the fixing bolts and fibre washers in the bottom.

I managed to get a flat spanner above the big metal flat ring that the wingnuts screw up to, to hold it

HTH

mike

[The Natural Philosopher]

Also a blowlamp is good - or even a heat gun or hairdryer

Standard practice with rusted nuts on cars was plenty of heat followed by a squirt of WD40 on the threaded bit. Cools it down and breaks the seal.

[Chris Bacon]

I omitted "the blowlamp" as it's right next to a porcelain cistern and bowl! The "heat spanner" is useful. Not sure about a hairdryer, at all.

[John]

Try electrolytic rust removal. See here:

do the job for you without any hard work.

John

[meow2222]

You missed the humour completely. The fact that your nuts are rusted solid should not stop you using the toilet. If it does, sci.med might be more use than uk.d-i-y, unless you know a helpful anaesthetist.

NT