All going well, in a couple of months we will be the new owners of a nice big old Victorian house.
Plenty of DIY :-)
Anyway, the electric's are in ok order AFAICT, however the installation dates back to I think the 70's (maybe '60's) and at the very least will be up for some upgrading. Rather than a big all in one go job I anticipate a rolling program lasting a few years.
How does the Building control / inspection business work in this situation, is there some sort of time limit within which a specific works must be completed. when deciding how legal I want to be, I like to know what I should be doing.....
Here's a copy of something I posted to the IEE forums, based on the same question I put to two building control depts, one in Kent, the other in East Sussex.
It's only a phone conversation, and it would remain to see how either LBA worked out in practise (well, one of them, the other LBA would never get to hear of anything I did, you'll see why:)
Copy of previous post to another forum made on 28 January 2005.
[To answer one of your points, is there a time limit, answer: No, starting must be done withing a certain time, finishing has no limit).
Tim
************* Going with the subject of DIY and Part P, I conferred with two LBA's recently about the exact procedure for DIY electrical work.
Both wanted 117.50 pounds inc VAT for a building notice application.
One LBA seemed to be making a right hash of the whole thing. They want to inspect at first fix and would only guarantee a visit with 2 days notice. They did make the concession (as far as I understood from their reply) that one could use conduit and replaster any wall chases, as long as they could see the cable ends. I believe though that they implied that I couldn't reinstate the circuit nor complete the connection of any fittings until after the first inspection.
To their credit, the 2nd inspection would lead to a domestic installation inspection certificate at no further cost. Effectively, if redecorating several rooms seperately, and if I wished to complete any notifiable electrical work upon finishing other DIY in each room (in order to make the room habitable), I could need to make the same number of BNA's as rooms (at the requisite cost!).
The second council seemed to be much more pragmatic.
It was suggested that a first fix inpection could be made with everything complete and wired into the CU on the grounds that (especially if conduit was used) it was trivial to remove the odd plate an inpect the workmanship, cable type etc.
I would be required by them to get a Periodic Inspect Cert at the end (apparantly from any competant + qualified person, which I took to mean C&G 2391) at my cost and present that to them. At this stage they may make a further inspection of their own and sign off the job.
Both said there was no time limit to completetion under a BNA, so upon pushing the point with the second LBA, using the "redecorating several rooms, one at a time" scenario above I drew the following conclusion:
If I am expecting to do 3 rooms this year plus other random bits, eg shed supply, I could submit a BNA covering the lot and proceed piecemeal as is usual for DIY. At the end of all the work, I call in an electrician to inspect/certify and send in the paperwork to the LBA.
The latter case does lead to extra short term cost. As a conciensious person I have no problem with a Period Inspection (I have a family and I'm not reckless) and the approach taken by this council seemed to be the least disruptive and least inconvenient to go along with. Effectively cheaper in the long run if I could combine itty bitty jobs under one BNA.
There was some degree of vagueness in both discussions, partly because I don't think either LBA has had time to settle down with the procedure yet.
My genuine view was that the latter LBA were trying very hard to make the whole thing as undisruptive as possible for the DIYer (though I suppose it would benefit equally a non-self certifying electrician undertaking a series of jobs in one house over a medium period of time).
My final thoughts were that the first LBA's approach was more likely to put people off declaring work whilst the second (if you can stomach the
117.50) was more likely to encourage people to declare and get a periodic done.
Fortunately the house I'm moving to comes under the second LBA
So by extending that concept a little, the DIYers procedure henceforth shall be:
1) Move into house
2) Issue notice to LA that you plan to rewire entire property piecemeal and pay your 117.50
3) Carry out any works you fancy as and when you see fit over arbitary time frame....
You are now back to the pre Part taking the P scheme!
4) If you later move out of the house, and if you have finished the rewire, you notify them to get your cert, else declare it to the new buyer as an ongoing work for the next owner to pick up.
These applications and papers could be a traded commodity. We could have an exchange for them, an index, buy and sell futures and derivatives......
The exchange could have those silly little boys with their red braces and Porsches and cocaine habits running around and throwing tantra and cutting plastic pipes with hacksaws.
A senior government minister could be caught doing insider trading, tough it out but eventually have to resign.
Don't forget to include vague plans of garden/shed wiring...
Exactly what I concluded. But only with one LBA you will note. The other, if you did that, you would have no working electrics at all.
What I was wondering would happen if I got bored, called in the period inspection and told the LBA I'd cancelled a number of items on the BNA 'cos I couldn't be bothered...
But that's no different to other renovation work. I put in for a huge raft of work over two years ago (with no mention of electrics of course) and am still going strong.
I had mine out, oh, must have been about 8 times during 12 months, for an application costing 117 quid. Once or twice it was just for visiting to clarify some query or other which I phoned up about. They were perfectly happy about it.
I would be required by them to get a Periodic Inspect Cert at the end (apparantly from any competant + qualified person, which I took to mean
C&G 2391) at my cost and present that to them. At this stage they may make a further inspection of their own and sign off the job.
This is the bit I don't like. If you ask me this is the a form of double taxation. Surely if the Local Authority is going to have responsibility for policing Part P, then the fee paid should include them doing the testing. If you can find a qualified person to do this inspection at your expense, how much is this going to cost?
In one of the many earlier posts on the subject, I think I had predicted this happening.
I see you quoted me, but forgot to actually "quote"...
Well, I was thinking exactly that. One could argue exactly as you say and state that the law requires me/you to notify BCO via an BNA and tell them to do their job rather than expecting us to do it for them. Don;t know the ins and outs of the law, but whatever.
Having said that, the BCO I spoke to was generally so helpful and wanted to convey the impression that they didn't want to get in the way of honest DIY that I would go along with it just to keep things that way.
Happy smiling helpful BCOs aren't a universal constant so I'm happy to bend if it encourages them to be that way. Seems he's bending in my direction as much as he can anyway, so quid pro quo.
That said, if it turns out to change when I have to do this for real, then I'll be changing my stance.
Anyway, at least I get a Periodic Cert in my hand done by someone of my choosing rather than a grumpy old council worker, or contractor who's milking the system and doesn't give a rats.
You can do the work and arrange for a test by a competent registered person. But not surprinsingly they warn you that you will have difficult finding anyone prepared to do this.
You can do the work yourself, but you must submit full plans. You then pay an additional fee (unspecified) on top of the standard BC fee and they will arrange for someone to do the test.
I fail to see why - never been a problem to get a periodic done before. A periodic is a periodic is a periodic. It is not a case of finding a sparky to prove to the LBA that your wiring is correct and won't burn the house down. It *is* a case of a sparky running a set of prescribed tests and prescribed observations and noting the results on a prescribed form. The council can't sue him unless his report was fiddled (a total lie for a brown envelope) or he conducted the test incompetantly. Same as always.
Yep. There was never any stated requirement to do anything other than submit a Building Notice Application. Full plans don't come into it.
Check back a few days for my post on this - but essentially Tunbridge Wells LBA will do the test included in the BNA fee (100+VAT). But they apprear to be less than helpful about how the work is to be undertaken.
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.