Part P is not going away ?

I am assuming that with all the proposed changes to planning regulations
part P for DIY will not be removed or watered down?
Am I right in thinking that Part P covers every thing to the power
outlet? If so is it legal to have a consumer box fitted with 30 amp
industrial connections one connected to each rcd. Then plug your house
wiring in to the 30 amp connections (possible via another consumer unit
with the correctly rated RCDs for the circuit)
Would this allow any changes to be made (to code) but bypassing Part P ?
Reply to
blank
No. It would still be fixed wiring. The "official" way to bypass part P is to ignore it. If you don't want to ignore it, then there is no need to worry about bypassing it!
Reply to
John Rumm
How is 'fixed wiring' defined? I run audio-visual cables and power supply cables to some equipment in buried plastic ducting to conceal them. Obviously the signal cables would not be fixed wiring but if the supply cables were at mains voltage, for example to a projector, is this then fixed wiring? I run it from a switch in a standard metal flush box, with the supply for that plugged into a socket strip. I'd have preferred to use a permanent connection, but know that I am not now allowed to do this. If I clip these cables to beams in the loft for neatness and safety is this fixed wiring?
I'm not going to change what I do. Just intrigued.
Peter Scott
Reply to
Peter Scott
Something that is a permanent install and not just an appliance flex.
Probably not. Even if it were I guess you are unlikely to erect a projector in a bathroom so it would be unlikely to come under part P anyway.
Basically you can do what you like in many situations and have them come under the remit or "minor works". Hence adding sockets to an existing circuit, or new lighting points etc are fine. The limitations on this are when those additions are in a "special location" (bathroom, sauna etc), or a kitchen. There you are given less minor works freedom (you can replace fittings like for like but that is about it).
Adding whole new circuits, replacing a consumer unit etc, would not be a minor work and hence come into the scope of part P.
You can still do this major work yourself, but should do so after application to building control etc.
Personally I would always go with the best technical solution to the requirements regardless of the legal situation. If the law wishes to make itself an ass then so be it. e.g. say the only financially viable options are do the works correctly with a new circuit but without appropriate fees or notification being paid to the LA, or to bodge a solution as a number of minor works extensions to existing circuits. The former has to be better even if not legal.
Reply to
John Rumm
By the scope of the Wiring Regulations (BS7671), supporting documentation (guidance notes, onsite guide, etc) and by custom and practice.
I run audio-visual cables and power
Not so obvious. In fact the signal cables may well be part of a fixed installation and if they were, they would be subject to Regulation 528 (segregation, separation, etc)
but if the
As to whether or not this consitutes "fixed wiring" is a moot point. The confusion arises through the use of components (which are normally associated with portable arrangements) in a scenario where the "portability" aspect has been severely restricted or effectively removed.
The current consensus (in terms of the power cable) is that such an arrangement is clearly not "portable" and, as the wiring regulations do not recognise the concept of "temporary", such an arrangement must therefore be defined as "fixed" and come under the scope of the Wiring Regs.
Therefore, many local authorities, universities and the MOD now deprecate this practice (i.e. the implementation of "permanent power extension cables") and insist that a local 13A socket outlet or fused spur be affixed to the ceiling adjacent to the video projector as part of the fixed wiring of the building and installed by an approved electrical contractor, etc.
Signal cables may need to be segregated/separated in accordance with Regulation 528 depending on the circumstances of the installation although a common-sense approach is usually adopted.
I run it from a switch in a standard metal flush box,
Almost certainly it is fixed wiring.
Reply to
Rumble
Hmmm. Seems like yet another seemingly 'good idea' that got out of hand. It cannot be sensible to make it necessary for people to fit a portable cable which is liable to accident and failure just to avoid the regs. I suppose this is what the online petition was trying to avoid? The ceiling socket solution is not suitable as I wanted to isolate the projector when not needed. Thus avoiding having it on standby as there is no on-off switch and it's out of reach anyway. If I decide to electrify the screen I guess a similar situation will apply.
God save us from politicians and their bright ideas. Especially when being lobbied by the trade. I have long believed that insisting that politicians should not be corrupt is the wrong approach. We should only choose ones that are corrupt. Then they'll too busy lining their pockets and they'll leave us alone. And when we want to be rid of them, there's plenty to impeach them with.
Yes I have segregated the signal cables, to avoid interference as well.
Peter Scott
Reply to
Peter Scott
I meant to add that I had to do a lot of research for the install. I always find it best to write down what I find out. Just in case anyone else is thinking of doing an AV system and might find it useful I have published a first draft of the document on my website. It covers standards, connectors, cables and a bit more. If you feel like it, take a look on:
formatting link
standards.htm
I'd welcome opinions, corrections etc, before I connect it to my site navigation.
Peter Scott
Reply to
Peter Scott
Peter, the link above does not work (probably because of the space). Be happy to have a look if you can fix the link.
Reply to
Rumble
Hmm. I thought that a removable plug and socket were acceptable isolators. If you unplug the plug and see the air gap between the plug and socket, and have a visible cable run from plug to projector, you can be reasonably certain the projector is isolated.
Having a switch of unknown reliability and hidden (fixed) cables to the projector make it considerably less certain that you will have achieved isolation when the switch is thrown. Was it the right switch (it should be labelled, but if so, is it labelled correctly?)?. Is the projector actually fed by the circuit isolated by the switch (you can't tell because the wiring is hidden)? Does the switch work properly? In comparison, a plug, socket and air-gap are pretty foolproof.
Also - if you work in an international organisation, it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that the person attempting to operate the projector may not speak English, so having an English label on a switch not directly associated with the projector will not be particularly effective.
I really don't know why trunking with removable covers is not more popular - chasing channels through plaster then re-covering and redecorating is such a pain.
Sid
Reply to
unopened
They are, but this is more a case of 'functional switching' than isolation for maintenance.
We seem to cope with isolation by switch with concealed wiring fairly well.
If it's an international organisation then anyone should have English as a second, third or fourth language. Anyway, that's what pictograms are for.
Because it looks unbelievably *naff*, especially when the various bits are made from slightly different plastics and yellow/fade at different rates.
Owain
Reply to
Owain
Well, the OP did say "as I wanted to isolate the projector when not needed", but you are probably correct. Many people do not distinguish between functional switching and isolation.
In fairly limited and well defined environments. I will not work on a circuit that is claimed to be isolated without testing it first. On more than one occasion, I have found the wrong isolation switch to have been thrown (sometimes due to mislabelling or lack of labels); and I have also found incorrectly (dangerously) wired circuits - for example, a ground floor socket wired as a spur from a first floor ring. I am a great believer in air gaps! I do admit that I have not found an isolation switch that has failed to do its job - the problem has generally been that what I think its job is, and what it actually does could be different.
Having English is practical, admittedly, but not always true.
I'm not sure what the pictogram is for "This switch isolates the projector over there", as opposed to "This switch operates the motor to lower the screen" or "This switch operates the blinds". Is there an international standard for such things? The pictograms on most laptops/PCs defeat most non-expert people, of which there seems to be a large supply.
I wholeheartedly agree that current implementations look unbelievably naff. Which means, I think, that there is a gap in the market for non- naff trunking. On the other hand, if you are going to chase a channel into a wall, why not put a U-shaped metal lining in, and have screw on covers - which could be painted, veneered of left as 'brushed steel' (the current craze). Designed well, it could make addition of sockets and upgrade/replacement of wiring a doddle.
Sid
Reply to
unopened
I should have said to highlight and copy the whole address then paste into your browser. There is a space that is not underlined so isn't automatically included in the URL. I've just checked it and it does work if you do that. Sorry. I'll put in an underscore next time I edit.
Peter Scott
Reply to
Peter Scott
In different circs to mine that seems like a very good idea. However I did want totally to conceal the wiring for style reasons so used round or oval plastic concealed in the plaster. Yes its a pain, but I think it was worth it. Just one more cloud of dust in the history of my house. I can always pull new cables through when there's a change needed.
There are now oval, coloured plastic surface cable ducts that should look good though I've never seen them 'in the flesh'.
Perhaps I used the word isolate wrongly. What I mean is that the projector has no on-off switch and in any case is not within reach of members of the family not having my prehensile arms. Therefore I had to have a separate switch. The socket is in the loft above the viewing room so again to unplug or switch using that was not practicable. So, no doubt breaking all the rules, I plugged into the loft socket then ran cables down to single pole switches flush in the walls. There's one for the proj, and another for the screen, currently unused. All connected by standard junction boxes to one of which the projector's power lead is connected. This is the only part with no earth because it's a figure of eight two core. If I could get switches of a different appearance I would use them for clarity. There is no question over safety. If I sold the house I would of course disconnect if I thought the new owners would not understand. To truly isolate I would unplug the feed plug.
Other posters have talked about providing information. I am not an installer and have done this for my own use. I can see that someone installing professionally might need to do it differently and get it tested and certificated. I have been musing over how though. Could a 130W projector and a screen motor of lower power be supplied from a lighting circuit according to the rules? I know that ventilation fans are. If people wanted to use a ring main presumably they would use a double-pole isolating switch, but these are very clunky.
Peter Scott
Reply to
Peter Scott
In message , Peter Scott writes
Including it within the angled brackets delimiters < > would have meant that any decent newsreader could have extracted the url with space.
But yes, spaces in urls are a bad idea.
Reply to
chris French
Yes of course. It was silly. Slip of the keyboard and of no importance whilst fiddling using Dreamweaver. Now corrected. Thanks
Peter Scott
Reply to
Peter Scott

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