Modern Washing Machines

[S R]

After 8 years our washing machine (HotPoint) needed replacing.

Now, we have a large household (grand-parents, kids, us), and the machine gets used a LOT, probably 2-3 washes a day, and 5-6 Sat/SUn.

My wife liked the old one because she could do a 20 minute hot water cycle and was happy with the results she got.

When the time came to replace it, we did our usual thing went to the shops and bought a larger load one, expecting pretty much everything else to be the same - we've had about 4 machines over 30 years and well things pretty much worked the same.

After it was fitted, first thing we got surprised at was it only had a cold water inlet, no hot water. Then my wife looked for the options to do a 20 minute hot water wash - there wasn't one. The high temperature washes were in the 90+ minutes mark, with the one she wanted at 150 minutes!!! Clearly going from 20 minutes to 90/150 minutes affects the number of washes you can do in a day.

We weren't happy, so went back to the shop. We were informed/educated that the new machines are all EU/Green/Climate Change compliant that work off cold water and that modern powders do not need high temps to activate and you don't need a hot water wash as much. All machines are made like this.

[Rant 1: Another example of how EU policy might look good for certain lobby groups, but doesn't actually help people in their daily lives ... much]. [Rant 2: Don't care what the experts say, the old 20 minute hot wash gave better results than the super-duper new 40 minute cold water wash with the space-age low temp powders - never trust what the experts say].

My options therefore are:

1. Find an old school machine
2. Attached the hot water pipe to the machine instead of the cold water one
3. Hack the machines embedded computer to give it a new program to suit our needs
4. Heat water in a kettle (nice and eco-friendly) and pour it with the powder to give things a "Kick"
5. Find a new machine that has the options we require.

Advice/thoughts appreciated.

[spuorgelgoog]

Miele machines often let you alter the temperature from that preset by the programme. I don't know if that will let you have a 90 deg temp on a 20 min express wash though.

And Miele can update the firmware on their machines.

Owain

[spuorgelgoog]

LG machines appear to have open source software in them :-)

Owain

[DerbyBorn]

[e-mail] wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Just perhaps - the machine makers have it right about the temperatures that work best with current powders. It is also the case with dishwashers. Going hot straight away can fix stains rather than remove them. The lack of hot fill has often been debated here - with lower water consumption many machines would only get as far as drawing off the water in the pipe that had gone cold. Perhaps you need to change your approach - or do some very detailed searching of specifications before buying.

[Andy Burns]

I sought out a hot/cold fill machine when I replaced mine about 8 years ago, I succeeded but it was largely a futile exercise as the machine takes so little water, that it doesn't drain the cold leg of the hot water pipe before it's finished filling - of course you can draw the cold leg off first manually but given that it seems to fill with both hot and cold valves open at the same time, it gets much more mains pressure cold than it does tank fed hot.

The only decent argument I've heard for this is that modern detergents work best at cold temperatures, if you use a hot fill they're less effective.

The other annoying this is the old machines would allow the door to open the instant the drum came to a halt, now they make you stand there like a lemon for 3+random minutes after it's stopped.

[Fredxxx]

I don't believe this for a second. They're simply cheaper to make.

Look harder and check the programs available before purchase.

[Tim Watts]

Cold only is normal now - they machine wants to heat up slowly so bio powders have a chance to work. And machines so little water that there is a theory you'd barely flush the cold out of your HW pipes by the time it was half full.

But I agree on the times - same with dishwashers - no programmes much under 2h!

Basically true.

You could... But it will probably make little difference.

Wouldn't be nice if they had a "custom" programme that you could say how long each cycle was and how many rinses.

Pointless.

There might be one - but your best bet will be ot download all the manuals from all the manufacturers and read them...

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I'm surprised you had a hot fill machine only 8 years old. Mine is at least that and cold fill only. Modern machines use much less water - so most wouldn't use enough for the hot to run hot as it were.

[Lee]

Arguments about hot fill aside, our machine has a 15min/30C 20min/40C wash that gives acceptable results with decent washing liquid. You can add an anti-bacterial agent if that is a concern - although that in itself is a whole other argument. It also allows the door to be opened at any point the machine is switched off, none of this waiting 3 minutes malarkey :)

One annoyance though, it's a 1600rpm spin machine, but will not allow this to be selected with the 15/20min wash, max is 1400rpm unless using a longer wash option. Seems a strange restriction?

[Capitol]

We are in complete agreement over modern washing machines. They are a pile of inefficient crap. However, I understand that one of the cheap and efficient Beko machines, accepts hot water and has a fast cycle. It may not however have a rinse cycle which actually rinses.

We have had good experiences with the very large LG mchines but YMMV as service is a bit questionable after the warranty expires.

[Capitol]

IME and that of Which from 50 years ago, the best solution to clean dishes is very hot water. This also apples to clothes. Low temperatures don't kill bugs. Colour fastness is another problem.

Out of interest what temperatures do catering dishwahers use?

[Tim Streater]

Ours doesn't go above 1200, didn't see any point in paying an extra £100or more to get to 1400 or whatever. And for many washes, we only set it to 800 or 1000 anyway. What's the point of going any faster?

Perhaps the OP should also reconsider his lifestyle and not wash stuff so often.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Very hot water will also shrink most clothes.

I'd also say there's rather a difference in the standard of cleanliness needed for things you use to cook and eat off etc than clothes.

Or perhaps you also boil the floors etc that you walk on with bare feet? And the toilet seat? And so on.

[John Rumm]

You forgot the low water usage and rougher agitation used to make up for the lack of water will also wear out your cloths faster ;-)

Probably your best bet if that is what you need... possibly a new American one would also fit the bill.

It may work - but the low water usage will often mean by the time its sucked all the cold water out of the hot pipe, its nearly full!

You may find you need hardware changes as well - the position of water level sensors etc.

Too much like a PITA if doing lots of washes per day.

1. Fit two machines and run them in parallel to get more throughput per hour.

[John Rumm]

I was about to download one of those to have a look at.... then I noticed the 1GB file size. Not sure I need to know that much!

[stuart noble]

Indeed. The labels on most clothes specify 40 these days

[sm_jamieson]

Our new hotpoint WMUD something or other clicks open immediately - which su rprised us - excellent. It also lets you pause the wash and if the water le vel is low enough you can open the door and put something else in. Also ver y flexible changing temp and spin speed part way through. Simon.

[sm_jamieson]

Our is 1600 spin but we turn it down to 1400 to reduce wear on the machine. We noticed a lot of difference in dryness of clothes between 1200 and 1400 , not so much to 1600. It also has a much larger drum so its spinning faster at the edges than the old one for the same rpm. Simon.

[Maurice]

+1

[Andrew Gabriel]

That looks like it's only the GPL and LGPL parts (Linux kernel, et al). Can't see the washing machine programming part in there.