# Modern Washing Machines

Tim Streater wrote:

IIRC the early spin dryers ran to 2800rpm. The clothes hardly needed any drying time. Women IME have an obsession with washing clothes, so the OP doesn't have an option.
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On 12/07/2014 16:50, Capitol wrote:

The early spin driers I saw were all narrow machines. The effectiveness is from a combination of rate of rotation and diameter. Even if they did spin at 2800, that doesn't make them twice as effective as one spinning at 1400 but with a much larger diameter.
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Rod

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On 12/07/2014 18:42, polygonum wrote:

0.15m radius drum at 2800 gives 2 x 0.15 x pi x 2800 / 60 ~44 m/sec tangential speed.
0.25m radius drum at 1400 gives ~37 m/sec
Translate that to force exerted on a kg of washing, and we get 44^2 / 0.15 = ~13 kN for the small spinner, and 5.4 kN for the large one.
(shows just how strong that drum needs to be - being pulled apart by the equivalent weight of 1.3 tonnes of washing!)
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Cheers,

John.
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On Tuesday, July 15, 2014 6:38:14 PM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:

5.4kN x 5kg = 27kN or 2.7 tonnes. The forces generated by offcentre washing must be huge.
NT
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Very hot water will also shrink most clothes.
I'd also say there's rather a difference in the standard of cleanliness needed for things you use to cook and eat off etc than clothes.
Or perhaps you also boil the floors etc that you walk on with bare feet? And the toilet seat? And so on.
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*Women like silent men; they think they're listening.

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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Indeed. The labels on most clothes specify 40 these days
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stuart noble wrote:

No problem, ignore the labels. If they shrink, bin them.
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On 12/07/2014 16:47, Capitol wrote:

Obviously a Primark customer
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I have to agree with the general comments here that the OP didn't do his ho mework properly plus I do wonder what his extended family would have done 6 0 plus years ago before the advent of the domestic washing machine. My mem ories was that we have survived despite one pair of pants, etc lasting seve ral days.
We have a Bosch w/m and a Siemens d/w and they are both cold water only, an d without going into the full details of the programs the OP (or at least h is wife!) wanted, it seems that we can do hot, warm and cold washes with lo ng and short times.
Sorry I don't have any sympathy as we spent time checking out the specs. be fore we bought and got what "her-indoors" wanted.
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Have you not heard of steam cleaners?
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On 12/07/2014 12:31, S R wrote:

You forgot the low water usage and rougher agitation used to make up for the lack of water will also wear out your cloths faster ;-)

Probably your best bet if that is what you need... possibly a new American one would also fit the bill.

It may work - but the low water usage will often mean by the time its sucked all the cold water out of the hot pipe, its nearly full!

You may find you need hardware changes as well - the position of water level sensors etc.

Too much like a PITA if doing lots of washes per day.

6. Fit two machines and run them in parallel to get more throughput per hour.
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Cheers,

John.
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On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 13:32:43 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

+1
--
/\/\aurice
(Replace "nomail.afraid" by "bcs" to reply by email)
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snipped-for-privacy@gowanhill.com writes:

That looks like it's only the GPL and LGPL parts (Linux kernel, et al). Can't see the washing machine programming part in there.
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Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
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superOsCa

I agree that high temperatures are needed - but not at the beginning of a cycle.
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On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 13:10:28 +0100, Andy Burns

The first microprocessor controlled washing machine we bought was a Hotpoint Quartz model (one of the first such models, afaiwa). This obviously relied on applying a 5 or 6 second delay after seeing the motor spindle tacho signal 'dropout' rather than wait a whole minute or so that the recentish replacement machine does after shutting off the spin power (blind to whether the drum was still moving, unlike the Hotpoint).
That strikes me as a waste of resources. Ignore the tacho signal completely and just allow 10 times what it actually requires for the drum to come to a stop in the worst case condition possible - high speed spin with maximum but precisely balanced load- rather than intelligently release the door a few seconds after the drum has stopped or slowed down to a safe speed as that 3 decades old Hotpoint Quartz model did.
Although we had to call out the service engineer to replace the controller panel shortly after taking delivery, the only faults I've had to fix have been replacing the drum bearings (twice!) and the motor once (adapted from a totally different make of washing machine dumped in the 'Works' skip :-)), Oh, and I think I renewed the door rubber seals one time.
The drum uses taper roller bearings where the pre-load such bearings require is generated by a special aluminium 'crush washer' whereby a thin shim washer is used when initially tightening the retaining nut against the shoulder of the spindle, followed by removal of the shim and re-doing up the nut and prising the tabs of the lock washer against the flats on the nut.
What I discovered was that it only took a few months for the 'crush washer' to collapse further and allow the taper rollers the necessary slack to self destruct. When I fitted the second (or perhaps third) bearing kit, I kept my eye on this over the next few months and as soon as it started to show the first hint of slop, refitted that 'preload adjustment shim' to take out the slack.
I wasn't the least bit worried about it being a little tighter than 'optimum' knowing full well that this would be infinitely better than being not tight enough. In any case, the resulting 15 or so years of service with this second (or possibly third) set of bearings vindicated my decision to allow an excess preload condition which I knew would pretty well resolve itself over the next 6 to 12 months anyway wherein I'd hoped the 'crush washer' would have most of its 'crushiness' squeezed out (a hope that seems to have been fully realised :-).
The motor failure led to an interesting repair job. I already had that 'spare drum motor' to hand when the original failed so I did some basic testing to see whether it would do as a substitute (absolutely no issues regarding phyisical fitment - motor mounting holes and slotted arm designed to take a range of motor bracket variations and the same multi-V grooved spindle (just a slightly different diameter to the orginal).
However, the 'new' motor generated 8 pulses per rev versus 6 per rev on the original. That, plus the slight difference in pulley diameters meant I had to 'gimmick' the tacho signal to account for both these factors if I wanted the spin cycle drum speed to remain as per the 1200rpm speed specification of the original.
I modified the controller board by 'dead bug' mounting the required cmos ttl divider chips into a convenient point in the tacho conditioning circuit. This neatly overcame the problems presented by the 'foreign motor', saving me some 84 quid or so, a non-trivial sum at the time, especially for a repair on a machine that was already old enough to justify being replaced.
I took pride in keeping such an old yet better machine in a servicable condition - modern machines at the time were, a good 15 years on, _still_ using that horrible multi-contactor clock driven switch which had been the expensive downfall of that Hotpoint Quartz's predecessors (which, BTW, used both hot and cold water supplies - handy when you've got a gas heated water supply).
The only reason that Hotpoint was finally retired after some 22 years or so of 'hard labour' was because our eldest daughter offered her barely used Tricity Bendix to the XYL when she moved house.
Although the controller looked like one of those crappy clock driven program switches, it was actually microprocessor controlled so I relented and let SWMBI have her way. I can't recall whether or not the Hotpoint found a new, and grateful owner. I suspect not since it was a good 22 years old and despite it still functioning perfectly fine, it's slightly grubby and worn appearance put us off trying to pass it on to a deserving cause. Sad to say, I think it simply got taken to the minicipal dump to join the other discarded white goods.
The thing with the Tricity Bendix is that it too eschews the use of a hot water connection and, irritatingly[1], uses a very protracted door release delay timer (90 seconds istr) rather than the more intelligent algorithm of that ancient Hotpoint Quartz machine.
It's not just washing machines that seem to have taken 'One step forward and two steps backward'. it afflicts microwave ovens too.
We just 'retired' an otherwise perfectly servicable 30 litre 700W Toshiba microprocessor controlled microwave oven some 6 months ago on account it had developed a little quirk of letting the display fade out during cooking. The 'quirk' had no other effect than fading, easily sorted by a kindly slap on its flanks. From my point of view, a perfectly acceptable foible considering its 20 odd years of unfailing service but, yet again due to SWMBI's desire for a 'shiny new model' to replace the old one, this was held over my head as an excuse to finally retire the Tosh.
So, on good advice from my brother who had recently discovered that expensive is far from better when it comes to a 700W microwave oven, we bought the Sainsbury's Stainless Steel Special for 40 quid and got a fiver refund as a 'goodwill gesture' when we discovered cosmetic damage to the door and took it back for exchange.
Now, its basic function as a 700W 20 litre microwave is ok, unlike some of its more dearer brethren (costing 2 to 3 times as much, according to my brother), it still has a couple of outstanding irritating 'features.
The first one being that, apparrently 3 long beeps to announce the completion of cooking wasn't enough by the gits that designed the cooking algorithm. It _had_ to be 5 long beeps or not at all [2].
The other annoyance is that the door is limited by a stop at a mere 90 degree of opening. This would be just about acceptable if, and only if, it had a detent to lock it there. It hasn't, of course, so it tands to close in on your left elbow when trying to ease out a hot plate of food from within it's rather petite confines (don't under-estimate the benefit of a 30 litre cavity over a 20 litre one).
The old Tosh didn't have a detent either but it did at least open to 120 degrees, ample elbow room for retrieving the food from the, now seemingly, cavernous cooking cavity.
After proving that the cooking efficiency was only 1 or 2 percent lower than the brand new SS special from Sainsburies, I did check the controller board and the connectors in the hope of fixing the fading display quirk but, to no avail.
I thought I had eliminated a high resistance intermittent connector contact issue so put it back in pride of place in the kitchen for a proper trial run to prove that this was the case. Unfortunately, a day or two later, the 'quirk' returned and I was forced by SWMBI to restore the SS special to the space in the kitchen formerly reserved for the Tosh. :-(
[1] Not realy :-) Luckily, I hardly ever have to interact with the washing machine so it's not an actual irritation, so much as an intellectual one.
[2] Three long beeps is annoying enough but, at least if you were within the presence of such annoyance, the Tosh would cancel the remaing beeps by use of the aptly named 'cancel' button. Not so for the SS special. Although this too was possessed of a 'cancel' button, the git responsible for the firmware, neglected to include 'beep cancellation' as an integral part of the cancellation function.
The only way to cancel the beeps was to cancel an active cooking process. You could only shut off the beeps by cancelling before the current cooking cycle had expired (opening the door or hitting the cancel button). The beep algorithm quite obviously was based on the "Magnus Magnuson" principle ("I've started so I'll finish."). With three beeps, that would have been annoying enough but FIVE beeps was just 'rubbing salt into the wound' in my view (What was wrong with just THREE beeps?).
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J B Good

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On Saturday, July 12, 2014 5:59:14 PM UTC+1, Johny B Good wrote:

Kinell, my sharp does one beep and thats bad enough. Fill the little bleeper with glue.
NT
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On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 13:10:28 +0100, Andy Burns

My old Bosch, purchased c2000, had an interlock on the door and I think all machines did that in those days; its predecessor, purchased c1983 was the same. My new Bosch, purchased about a month ago, allows the door to be opened as soon as the cycle finishes, which I think is now the way of doing things. (With the new machine I use lower temperatures for longer cycles with, as yet, no issues identified compared with the old m/c, which I sold on eBay.)
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I think naby door locks are operated by a bi-metal strip being heated to lock the door - and needing to cool to allow it to open. Cheap.
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Have you thought of seeking help? ;-)
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*If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 17:59:14 +0100

You're lucky: our brand new Whirlpool had to have the door-closed switch replaced before it would run its first cycle! It only took four working days or so before they could get somebody out to us.
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Davey.

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