FENSA - is it necessary

[geoff]

The FENSA sites seem to be written a bit like CORGI

Do you really need FENSA when installing replacement windows

[tim.....]

If you want to sell, and the buyer's solicitor is on the ball, yes

tim

[John Rumm]

Not even convinced that is really a problem. Yes they will ask (its on the standard forms), but if you tick the "none" or "lost" boxes I can't see it causing major issues with most buyers.

[Tanner-'op]

No - but you will then need the relevant paperwork from the local council Building Control Office to say that the installation is up to standard - and at a fair old cost.

Tanner-'op

[Ed Sirett]

At worst it will be a bargaining point for a price reduction. Which is probably more significant at the moment that it would be at more bullish times.

[geoff]

So what happens if you don't

i.e. just go ahead and don't notify them?

[Tim S]

tim..... coughed up some electrons that declared:

Sorry for being a pedant, but we should be clear...

What you actually need is a bit of paper showing compliance to Building Regs, including (and fairly prominantly in for windows *and* external doors) Part L compliance.

A FENSA operative can self certify akin to NICEIC/NAPIT/etc for Part P.

The other route is a BNA or Full Plans submission to the LABC, same as any other notifiable building works.

Regarding the solicitors: Part L, specifically heating systems and windows are mentioned explicitly on either Law Society form TA11 or TA12, I forget which. Both forms are commonly used as the basis of a vendor questionnaire by the potential buyer.

You don't of course *have* to complete the forms, but that may affect the sale. The easy way out if to plead ignorance and offer to buy a 50-100 quid indemnity policy for the buyer.

All based on recent experience. My sale didn't go through, but it wasn't the paperwork that stopped it, in fact no-one batted an eyelid regarding any building control issues once I'd offered the indemnity policy. It fell through because the buyers were a pair of unrealistic serial-gazundering toerags, who are now totally blacklisted by the local estate agent. But that's another story. >-o

Cheers

Tim

[Tim S]

Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:

Ironically more specific attention is paid to windows and electrics than a whole host of other classes of building works which could have far more serious implications if they go wrong. AFAICR I'm not sure if gas work is even mentioned on the standard legal questionnaire, other than the bits concerning Part L. Correct me if I'm wrong...

Cheers

Tim

[John Rumm]

Nothing...

The windows you will be installing in most cases will comply with the building regs anyway, so there is nothing that can happen. (assuming no other complications like listed buildings and conservation areas etc).

[Tanner-'op]

If there is no certificate from the BCO, then there will be problems when selling the property.

Not a sensible idea for the reason already stated - and, if a neighbour decides to report that fact to the the BCO, then it is possible that you may be forced to reinstate the works as original, or end up before the beak and paying a rather substantial fine.

I had a door and window fitted by a local installer (FENSA registered) eighteen months ago and the FENSA certifcate dropped onto my doormat two weeks later - and the (small) fee for it was included in the price for supply and fit - that certificate was then simply stored with my house deeds.

Tanner-'op

[Andrew Gabriel]

As I said in another thread, two colleagues who moved recently were strongly advised by their solicitors not to answer any such questions, even where favourable answers could have been provided. Don't know how universal that is though.

[Dave]

Isn't it time we stopped the tail from wagging the dog?

Dave

[A.Lee]

Only a very slight chance of a problem. If someone wants to buy a house, you really think the lack of a certificate for windows will stop them buying it? HIP packs are a legal requirement, yet the Inspector who did my g/f's house would not even look in the loft, as there wasnt 'safe' access to it, so the loft space got the minimum insulation rating, when in fact there is an awful lot of insulation in there. BCO/Councils are completely uninterested in windows on 'normal' housing stock.

Total rubbish. If you know this, then please post a link to a relevant document showing such action being taken against a 'criminal' who has fitted non-certified windows. (disregarding any listed buildings).

Alan.

[geraldthehamster]

Absolutely. It's a load of old rubbish. If a buyer wants your house, is he going to refuse to buy it because you don't have a piuece of paper for a window? I suppose some buyers are stupid enough to listen to crap from the legal executive doing their conveyancing, but I can't see most caring. JFDI.

Regards Richard

[John Rumm]

Ours gave the advice that if you have any doubt about a question, then answer "I don't know"...

I completed the sale on our previous place recently, and the only area paperwork was missing was for the boiler installation. The buyers solicitors queried it, and I just responded saying that I had done the installation myself and hence no CORGI cert was available (or required), pointed them at the relevant web sites, and said I believed that the installation was in accordance with the building regs requirements as well (glossing over the lack of a completion cert!). Ended it with a note that it was now beyond the time the LA could take any enforcement action anyway. Never heard any more about it.

[John Rumm]

The only way this could happen is if you installed windows that were not in compliance with the regulations. The LA would not be able to take enforcement action to "correct" work that is already correct.

As for fines etc, again that would require a LA to spend their precious budget prosecuting a case that has no merit for anyone involved. They tend to reserve these actions for the serial and persistent offenders who are endangering the public by their actions.

Hope it gave you a nice warm feeling ;-)

[tony sayer]

Yes .....

Doesn't house, and for that matter car selling, bring out the very worst in the great British public;!......

[tony sayer]

Wasn't there a "works before FENSA" date exemption somewhere around 2004 IIRC bit like part pee?..

[Invisible Man]

I am keeping my FENSA cert safe.

Lack of evidence of building reg consent etc. etc may not put off buyers but their conveyancers may also be working for their mortgage supplier who may be a great deal more picky. Conveyancers seem to be looking at more and more ways to cover their backs and/or get extra commission from selling insurance/warranties.

Chancery searches and indemnities.

Cases where LA planning and building regs are all OK but the original developer of the site required their permission for any changes. I had to pay for one indemnity and one vendor who sold to me had to get retrospective permission from that estate's original developer.

Sub leases which purport to give more benefits than the head lease.

It seems that every time I move some bright conveyancer picks up something nobody has asked for in the previous sales.

[stuart noble]

That about sums it up. Too much to ask that he might have a ladder I suppose