Hi
I've just had a quote for replacement windows for a company, which claimed that under the FENSA regulations, upstairs windows have to have a bottom opener to allow for escape from fire.
Can anyone advise if this is true please?
Thanks.
(I've looked on the FENSA web site but can't see anything about bottom openers for fire escape)
PS the reason I don't want a bottom opener is because I have a kamikaze 3 year old who would simply lob himself through the opening if he had half a chance!
They certainly now need to open wide enough to permit escape of resident/entry of fireman in an emergency, yes - nothing specific about a bottom opener though. There are other stipulations, and the rules are very specific - see the building regulationss at
You're allowed to fit specific child safety locks to stop this happening! There are also special hinges with over-ridable stays which do the job.
David
Not sure about the regulations, but my fitter, on two separate jobs, mentioned the same thing.
He fitted windows that had an opening of at least, I hope I remember correctly, 40cm to allow for an adult to escape. They did however have a child lock that allowed you to limit the opening to a lot less than that (say 10cm) to allow for ventilation only.
yes, it is. 'means of egress' or some such twaddle. basically if /you/ fit a window you need BC approval but if you have it fitted by a company they are supposed to self regulate which gives automatis approval.
there are a few methods of locking windows, that's where the regs and FENSA accreditiation is supposed to come in.
RT
In message , Maria writes
My how fast children grow up these days!!!!!!!!!!!
Children under 6 will have to be stooped climbing trees next.
Indeed young persons under 12 will have to be stooped from going to the Scouts all by themselves after that.
When I were a boy in the war and burnt my hand on mums freshly lit fire. her response was --> She giggled "THAT WILL TEACH YOU ROGER"
I remember it still.
Watch out Maria if your 3 year old can do as you claim what will that young person be up to in 2 years time - NOT GETTING IN --> "YOUR" bed!!!!!!!!!
Yours Bored
Load of twaddle , the opening window can hinge from any point you wish as long as it meets the required opening sizes for escape , not all upstairs windows are required to open in this manner either
In the construction industry fensa is looked upon as a bit of a joke , a money making scheme thought up by the glass and glazing federation so the could achieve some importance
better speaking to your local building control who will give you all the correct info
not true, either in a practical sense or a legal one.
no, but the regs are there to guide people like the OP who's unsure, so from the OPs POV it would make sense for them to adhere to the regs.
*most* regulations are looked upon by the 'construction industry' as "a bit of a joke" and (whoodathunkit) the reason we the public have such regulations is down to the fact that X regulation "is looked upon as a bit of a joke"like em or loathe em, regulations protect us from them (you?), geddit ?
or a way of ensuring that your average householder has correctly installed windows that wont trap them and their kids in the event of a fire ?
'better speak to your BCO' to advise on 'joke' regs ? talk about confused !
RT
Don't know about bottom openers but building regs guy at the local council told me that upper floor windows now had to open in a way to allow egress. That was about 15 yrs ago.
Try free.uk.diy.home They might know.
The FENSA regulations have nothing to do with safety and everything to do with the governments desire to be seen to be cutting greenhouse gas emissions. The regs were introduced at the same time as the regulation requiring you to notify the local authority if you changed your water heating boiler. Failure to tell the nosy authoritarian bastards can get you whopping thousands of pounds fine. Safety regs predate FENSA by a long time.
>
We had the same issue. The windows had to be bottom opening as otherwise the opening would have been to high to use as an exit.
Our builder agreed with us that making them lockable though was a good idea. We decided that as we do not smoke, do not use a chip pan, do not have an open fire or gas fire or gas cooker then the risk of our young child falling out of the window was greater than the risk of a fire.
HTH
Emma
I believe it's only the bedroom windows that need to open wide enough to allow escape. The only differecnce is in the hinge which pivots the window close to the frame to allow more room. You might find the regulation here:
It is quite possible to have windows that comply with the regulations and are also safe for children. Whilst the risk to your family may be low, and I do see your point of view, building regulations are there not only to protect you, but future owners of the property as well. When you come to sell your house you will be obliged to sign a declaration that all work that has been done to the standards prevailing at the time the work was done. So then you are faced with the choice of committing perjury or having a buyer insist the work is corrected before they will buy.
Peter Crosland
wrong as long as the window sash opens in such a manner as to allow egress meets the required opening size for a fire escapeing window it can be hinged from any suitable position the client wishes furher the window does not nessarily require an opening sash to comply with the regulations if an alternative escape method is available
never said she should not adhere to the regs
actaully most regs are well recieved in the industry , its only cowboys you need to be protected from
they protect both the consumer and tradesmen gives tradesmen a base to quote from
but it doesnt , the companies are self regulating which has been proven many times not to work , the quality companies required no regulation the cowboys only obey it when fensa wish to inspect that particular job other than that they dont give a toss
fensa does not garentee all work meets appropriate building regulation it only covers the installation so that the windows reach the correct u values not any other works required such as structural work it does not cover the quality of hte installation either . most fensa registered companies do not have a clue about building regulations and quote them incorrectly an alarmly amount of times
fensa is self regualting thats why its a joke
anyone can join fensa for a large fee
most window companies do not employe qualified tradesmen (carpenters / joiners etc) to install the units instead they use semi skilled clowns who have not served an apprentiseship and have very little knowledge of allied trades
the prosecution gently rests it's case ;-)
RT
Your * it's * should be * its * without the apostrophe ;-)
In which case, we the jury find for the defence m'lord.
quite right.
in mitigation I respectfully point m'learned friend to the bottle of malt to my right.
RT
Yes. More or less. One window per room needs IIRC 600mm clear opening width.
Not sure her bed has to do with anything, but I gather that as Maria's toddler plummets earthwards from the 1st floor window, you expect her to giggle "THAT WILL TEACH YOU!!"
Nice one, Roger.
David
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