Built-in cooker versus separate hob & oven

[Mary Fisher]

Oh.

No room on my worktop ...

A fully fitted/built in washing machine?

Or dishwasher? Even that vibrates.

Or a fridge or freezer - which NEED space for heat to escape?

Mary

[Christian McArdle]

Yes. I've got one of those. And a tumble dryer.

Not much at all. Oddly, I've got a fully integrated dishwasher too. Even the washing machine, which is 1600 spin, hardly vibrates at all. I'm hoping that the extra expense on the integrated version went into vibration damping, but suspect it just went to the shareholders. :-(

Yes. They are correctly designed with airflow in mind. They give various options in terms of vent sizing and positioning. They've thought it all out.

Integrated appliances are all designed differently. My fridge and freezer are bolted into a specially designed carcass, much like an integrated oven would be. The laundry and dishwashing appliances are basically freestanding units that can have full size kitchen doors attached. They can be pulled out from under the worktop like a freestanding appliance and aren't bolted in place at all.

Christian.

[Mary Fisher]

Sounds as though it was expensive ...

Even cleaning the heat exchangers?

What's the point in that?

In fact, what's the point in anything being unmovable? I can think of problems when they need repair or replacement.

So they're not built in. Just covered at the front.

I know a large kitchen like that. I had to open many doors to get to what I wanted. The door manufacturers have done a good job persuading consumers that their appliances are something to be ashamed about :-)

Mary

[Christian McArdle]

Yes, they are more expensive than non-integrated machines. In compensation, at least they are usually well specced. Basically, you have to pay extra for integrated, but are forced to do this to an already good model.

That's not something I've ever needed to do on a fridge/freezer. You could always undo the bolts and lift it out if you really want to dust the back.

Correct.

Once you've accumulated a full range of appliances, your kitchen would look like a branch of Comet unless you found some way of hiding them. Not everyone has room for a utility room where the appearance matters less than a kitchen.

I will have one non-integrated appliance, though. When the kitchen is finally complete, it will have a nice range style cooker to go into the fireplace. (Not an always-on Aga, but the conventional gas version Rangemaster Classic 90).

Christian.

[Mary Fisher]

...

Nor have I. But our kitchen is my workroom. Do you hide your equipment behind doors in your garage/workshop? Is your sink hidden? If not, does your kitchen look like a plumber's merchant? What about your bathroom, do you hide things in there? I wonder how far the designers and salesmen will go ...

The dual fuel one is what I have. And it's not behind doors. It, like all the other appliances in our kitchen, is used far too much.

Thinks - do they make cupboards for 5' high fridges and freezers?

Mary

[S Viemeister]

[Mary Fisher]

Why?

Mary

[S Viemeister]

To hide them, I suppose?

Sheila

[chris French]

In message , Mary Fisher writes

Because some people like the look of a kitchen with matching doors etc. over things?

Why not?

[Mary Fisher]

Daft I call it :-)))))

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

No reason - except that if doors weren't available would those people be worried about seeing their appliances?

:-)

Mary Leeds

[David W.E. Roberts]

You seem in particularly Trollish mood in this thread, Mary :-)

So, which is safer?

(1) Lifting out a hot casserole from an oven shelf that is at the same height as the worksurface and transferring it to said worksurface.

(2) Bending down with consequent risk to your back then reaching into a hot oven whilst bent double, extracting a hot casserole, then straightening up to place the casserole on the worksurface?

I would suggest that (1) would be assesed as safer by most experts. I would also suggest that (2) would be assesed as unsafe for people of limited mobility, e.g. due to age and/or infirmity.

Cheers Dave R

P.S. don't think anyone so far has proposed siting the oven at head height.

[Christian McArdle]

Now you come to mention it, yes.

When I built my last bathroom, I used a concealed cistern toilet. All the plumbing, including the cistern and all the sink plumbing and drainage was hidden behind a cabinet, with a worktop across the top. The basin was a semi-inset type that juts out from the worktop. It was very practical as well as hiding the plumbing. It provided lots of storage space under the sink for household chemicals, plus a large surface on top for toiletries. Easier to clean, too, as you don't have the manky bit of floor round by the soil pipe.

It wasn't expensive to do. The sink and toilet cost the same as a similar quality freestanding suite. The cabinet was made from T&G boards and 2x3 studs.

Only the washing machine and tumble dryer involve opening an extra door to use. The other appliances (fridge/freezer/dishwasher) you just open one door that matches the kitchen and are no less convenient than freestanding units.

Yes. I suspect mine is about that height, or maybe a little taller. It is actually a fridge freezer, with a little freezer up to worktop height and a large fridge above.

Christian.

[Mary Fisher]

er - we weren't talking about concealing plumping and other servicing but about the actual applicances. Do you have to open separate doors to use your toilet, bidet or bath?

And you haven't addressed the workroom philophy - that of hiding large equipment which is exactly the same as hiding kitchen applicances.

I remember that becoming fashionable in the 1950s, my mother boxed in everything she could. It made more ledges to dust ...

We have a tall fridge and a tall freezer next to each other - but only because they happened to fit into the space. The chest freezer and smaller fridge - for specialised storage - are in a shed. They're open to view too. Even if we ever replace our kitchen appliances we shan't conceal them. It's not important to us and we're not ashamed (or proud!) of them.

Each to his own.

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

That's your perception :-)

You have to have space to do that. Our kitchen is very small.

NONONO!!!!!!!!!

You bend the knees ... never bend the back.

See above.

I'm sure you're right about that. I'm old and arthritic in hands and back and knees which is why I never bend over, even if I'm not lifting.

Experts will teach you exactly how to bend and lift safely, it's a basic rule of the HSE. I leave dangerous practices to younger and less sensible people.

I've seen them, perhaps they don't now.

They also used to have eye level grills, perhaps still do. How to blind yourself with a sausage!

Mary

[John Stumbles]

The deLonghi gas hob & electric fan oven are on offer as a pair for £250 from Comet at the moment. I fitted one (well, both) yesterday and they did seem quite nice & well made for a cheapie.Don't know how they'll fare in the longer run of course. They have controls at the front on the hob, and that you can understand on the oven :-)

[S Viemeister]

GBP 250 for _both_? Do you have the model numbers and/or URL for them?

Sheila

[John Stumbles]

I saw them in the shop - haven't looked online. The oven is model no ESF461ST - don't have the hob's

[John Stumbles]

You could look at it as having them match rather than hiding them. Is it really any more 'hiding' them than having the works covered over rather than being open to the world like a Richard Rogers building? Seems to me a matter of personal taste. Must say though: I find it a PITA when I'm looking for the fridge in someone else's kitchen and you have to open every door until you find it!

I've come across some lovely cast-iron roll-top baths crudely boxed in with hardboard & the like!

exactly

[Mary Fisher]

Oh yes, and fashion (akas selling). Although I'm a fan of RR.

Spouse wouldn't dream of matching his planer with his milling machine with his lathe with his pillar drill with his saw bench with his ... well you see what I mean I'm sure!

Quite. I've stopped doing it, I plead simple-mindedness.

She didn't do that but I've seen it. Our bath here is a cast iron roll top with ball and claw feet and Spouse fitted a framed panel on the front (there's a wall at side and one end, cupboard at the other) but I insisted on it being done so that the roll top was still a feature, I like the comfortable line of it. What I didn't like was having to clean under the bath and retrieve toys, clothing, a variety of lost items such as keys and small animals when the children were here, that's why it was 'boxed in'. With wood and not crudely. It's also firm, unlike many plastic bath panels which I've seen flapping loose, cracked or bent.

Mary