Now you come to mention it, yes.
When I built my last bathroom, I used a concealed cistern toilet. All the
plumbing, including the cistern and all the sink plumbing and drainage was
hidden behind a cabinet, with a worktop across the top. The basin was a
semi-inset type that juts out from the worktop. It was very practical as
well as hiding the plumbing. It provided lots of storage space under the
sink for household chemicals, plus a large surface on top for toiletries.
Easier to clean, too, as you don't have the manky bit of floor round by the
It wasn't expensive to do. The sink and toilet cost the same as a similar
quality freestanding suite. The cabinet was made from T&G boards and 2x3
Only the washing machine and tumble dryer involve opening an extra door to
use. The other appliances (fridge/freezer/dishwasher) you just open one door
that matches the kitchen and are no less convenient than freestanding units.
Yes. I suspect mine is about that height, or maybe a little taller. It is
actually a fridge freezer, with a little freezer up to worktop height and a
large fridge above.
er - we weren't talking about concealing plumping and other servicing but
about the actual applicances. Do you have to open separate doors to use your
toilet, bidet or bath?
And you haven't addressed the workroom philophy - that of hiding large
equipment which is exactly the same as hiding kitchen applicances.
I remember that becoming fashionable in the 1950s, my mother boxed in
everything she could. It made more ledges to dust ...
We have a tall fridge and a tall freezer next to each other - but only
because they happened to fit into the space. The chest freezer and smaller
fridge - for specialised storage - are in a shed. They're open to view too.
Even if we ever replace our kitchen appliances we shan't conceal them. It's
not important to us and we're not ashamed (or proud!) of them.
Each to his own.
You could look at it as having them match rather than hiding them. Is it
really any more 'hiding' them than having the works covered over rather
than being open to the world like a Richard Rogers building? Seems to me
a matter of personal taste. Must say though: I find it a PITA when I'm
looking for the fridge in someone else's kitchen and you have to open
every door until you find it!
I've come across some lovely cast-iron roll-top baths crudely boxed in
with hardboard & the like!
Oh yes, and fashion (akas selling). Although I'm a fan of RR.
Spouse wouldn't dream of matching his planer with his milling machine with
his lathe with his pillar drill with his saw bench with his ... well you see
what I mean I'm sure!
Quite. I've stopped doing it, I plead simple-mindedness.
She didn't do that but I've seen it. Our bath here is a cast iron roll top
with ball and claw feet and Spouse fitted a framed panel on the front
(there's a wall at side and one end, cupboard at the other) but I insisted
on it being done so that the roll top was still a feature, I like the
comfortable line of it. What I didn't like was having to clean under the
bath and retrieve toys, clothing, a variety of lost items such as keys and
small animals when the children were here, that's why it was 'boxed in'.
With wood and not crudely. It's also firm, unlike many plastic bath panels
which I've seen flapping loose, cracked or bent.
Hmmmn, I'm the last person anyone would accuse of being fashionable (OK,
after you Mary :-) but it seems to me selling and fashion aren't
necessarily the same thing. The main fashions I can think of in my
lifetime e.g. mods, rockers & teds, hippy, punk, grunge (& chav?) came
out of popular culture and were picked up and commercialised and became
stuff to sell. Even things intended for sale which became fashionable
(VW beetle, Mini (car & skirt), Walkman, gameboy, Dyson...) did so
almost by accident (inasmuch as plenty of other stuff was meing marketed
but didn't become fashionable).
I persevere: can't drink my tea without milk :-)
I know what you mean [shudder!] - cheap rubbish sold by diy sheds. Even
know of one the bottom fell out of! However there are plastic baths
which would stop a tank, but they cost multos wonga. When I fit
bathrooms I insist that if they want a cheap bath they have an enamelled
steel one: cheaper than even diy shed plastic but tough and hardwearing.
I disagree. Market research and advertising work. Replacement kitchens and
other sillinesses prove it. They persuade us that we like the things they
I can't drink it with milk ... if ayone else wants it they can do the
treasure hunt themselves.
But if the old one isn't leaking why change it?
I wouldn't have either but understand. Even with the now matt and stained
surface of our bath I prefer it to any new one, I hope it sees us out. But
I've just been cleaning our ss double drainer sink and saw pitting in the
bottom and wondered if that will see us out. I think it will, it's a thick
section. We bought it second hand in the 70s. But I did wonder how many
people would have removed it for something more 'modern'. It replaced our
'Bristol' sink with rotten wooden drainer, both dated from when the house
was built in the 1930s. There are about nine such sinks in the garden, I
understand they sell for lots now, newly fashionable. A cabinet making
daughter made an elm drainer for one, to order, the customer was happy to
pay mega bucks.
It works, that's all I want. What's more, it's not 'set in' to another
surface which means that I don't get a bad back by leaning further over it
than I need to.
I tell you, if the economy depended on the Fishers there wouldn't be an
That's what I went for when I fitted ours about 10 years ago; I found
it to be a good compromise between the cost (and weight) of cast iron
and useability as a bath. (I really hated the el-cheapo feel of the
plastic bath we had in one of our previous houses.)
We are dual fuel dual unit (gas hob, electric double oven).
One reason is that the oven is at chest height so it is safe and easy to get
stuff in and out, and easier to look through the glass door to see what is
I have never liked bending down to an oven under a hob.
You can also have two people doing stuff - one at the oven/grill and the
other at the hob - without invading each others space.
We are very happy with our Creda double oven (fan in the lower oven) and
find it cooks quickly and evenly.
You can also put stuff in when the oven is cold, then use the timings for a
conventional oven, so no need to wait for it to warm up.
Personal preference, but I like electric fan ovens for their even heating
and I like gas hobs for their controlability plus the ability to still use
pans when the base isn't absolutely flat :-)
Looks as though the reasons that Christian doesn't like fan ovens are the
same reasons we like them :-)
Yep, that is the main reason I prefer separate ovens
Yep, I much prefer that set up. On the whole I'm much more likely to
want to cook things at the same temps, rather than different. And if you
like to cook using wok, then electric really isn't so good.
But you have to have space in your kitchen ... :-(
I've never felt that a low oven is unsafe though, why should it be? I
wouldn't be keen on taking out a very hot casserole at head or chest height.
I agree about seeing into the oven but we don't really *need* to do that,
You seem in particularly Trollish mood in this thread, Mary :-)
So, which is safer?
(1) Lifting out a hot casserole from an oven shelf that is at the same
height as the worksurface and transferring it to said worksurface.
(2) Bending down with consequent risk to your back then reaching into a hot
oven whilst bent double, extracting a hot casserole, then straightening up
to place the casserole on the worksurface?
I would suggest that (1) would be assesed as safer by most experts.
I would also suggest that (2) would be assesed as unsafe for people of
limited mobility, e.g. due to age and/or infirmity.
P.S. don't think anyone so far has proposed siting the oven at head height.
You have to have space to do that. Our kitchen is very small.
You bend the knees ... never bend the back.
I'm sure you're right about that. I'm old and arthritic in hands and back
and knees which is why I never bend over, even if I'm not lifting.
Experts will teach you exactly how to bend and lift safely, it's a basic
rule of the HSE. I leave dangerous practices to younger and less sensible
I've seen them, perhaps they don't now.
They also used to have eye level grills, perhaps still do. How to blind
yourself with a sausage!
Try and get one that doesn't melt the knobs when you use the grill.
I like our Electrolux double oven - the controls and timer are to one side
which allows th etop oven to come right up to the top.
Thanks for all the comments. I think we'll probably go for built-in
after all (the comments about buyers liking built-in are pertinent -
also we already have the 'stand' and it will make worktop fitting a
wee bit easier).
Does anyone have any particular likes/dislikes of particular brands?
We're unlikely to be able to afford Neff etc. but won't be going for
extra cheap rubbish.
One comment I have heard is to avoid them in rented properties
where appliances seem to break more often anyway, and you really
don't want the extra hassle of trying to fit replacements into the
In my family, there's a 5 year old Smeg hob and oven which have
given no trouble (they were bought in France as they were cheaper
there at the time and parts of my family live in France anyway
and come over regularly). There's also a Manor House (Wickes
brand?) oven and hob which have been fine for the 5 years we've
used them, although previous owners had problems with the oven
fan motor burning out a couple of times. All the others around
the family that I can think of are free standing (a giant dual
fuel Smeg, and an older gas-only Cannon with foldaway eye level
grill) and also have given no trouble.
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