Update to: What could have done this to my vinyl siding?

Page 2 of 6  
dpb wrote:

I don't believe arcing itself generated the heat, I believe arcing caused a fire in the wall cavity that generated the heat before it self extinguished. I'd put 80% odds on the OP finding significant fire damage in the wall cavity when he opens it up.
Pete C.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Pete C. wrote:

I'll take that bet -- I think it's external by about 90%... :)
--
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Same here.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I'll bet not.
s

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

No, I think he might have done it *this* spring instead of last. But Chris Lewis also posted a plausible explanation of delayed effects.

I based my statement of "no apparent damage" on the fact that what's visible in the photo looks about the same as any other OSB I've ever seen. And, of course, there may be damage that's not readily apparent, so I'm not willing to say "no damage". Just "no apparent damage".

In the original photo, the center of the damaged area can be seen to be at roughly the same height as the handle on the sliding door. In the second set of photos, that same handle is visible at roughly the same height as the countertop backsplash -- thus, while some of the damage is indeed below the cabinet top, not all of it is. Nearly half of it is above as well, and the visibly damaged area on the outside definitely extends at least a short distance above the top of the backsplash.

I'm convinced, too, that it's external. But I still think it's from the stain: it's right there, right where it would have gotten hit from the overspray that the OP already said happened -- and it's just about the color I'd expect it to be, too, from that color stain being sprayed onto that color siding and then wiped off with some organic solvent.
Look at the OP's first photo again, too -- down at the bottom, just above the deck, you can see overspray that was *not* wiped off with Lift-Off or whatever he used. Same color, but no warpage.

Right, and that's exactly what caused the damage to be in that pattern. :-)

Not even for half a minute, my friend.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Doug Miller wrote:

So suddenly OSB has the same fire rating as sheetrock? I'm sure the fire marshal would be very surprised.
Pete C.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Where did I say that? First, you can't see things that plainly *are* there. Now, you *are* seeing things that *aren't* there.
I retract my suggestion that you have your eyes checked. The problem seems to be an inch or two farther back.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Doug Miller wrote:

So you're claiming that a fire inside the wall that transfers enough heat through the OSB to deform the vinyl siding is also certain to transfer enough heat through the sheetrock on the other side of the wall to show indications on the fairly dark painted wall surface?

Have you ever seen sheetrock exposed to a fire? The amount of steam released on the side exposed to fire which carries heat away? The significant lag time before the opposite side of the sheetrock begins to heat to any significant level? The fire rating given to sheetrock vs. OSB?
Pete C.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

In addition to your vision problems, you also seem to have *serious* difficulty with reading comprehension. Another poster suggested that any damage that might have occurred on the inside would be hidden because it's below the level of the countertop. I wrote what you quoted above in response, pointing out only that not *all* of the damaged area is below the countertop. I made no claims one way or the other about whether damage would, or would not, be visible on the inside as a result of your mythical magic fire that discolors siding on the side away from the heat without disturbing the side toward the heat. Any notion that I did is solely the product of your imagination.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Doug Miller wrote:

Where is your evidence that the siding is not discolored on it's back side? I've not seen the OP post anything of the sort.
Pete C.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

There's your reading comprehension problem again. I never once said that it was not -- I said the OP should check to see if it is.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Doug Miller wrote:

I agree that the OP should check the back of the siding. I do not however consider a lack of discoloration on the back side to be conclusive proof of an external heat source since one side is in free air and the other in confined space which could affect discoloration.
Based on the lack of conclusiveness of the discoloration, the evidence supporting an internal heat source such as the damage to the siding that extends past the railing where any likely external heat source would not reach, the more significant damage to the Tyvek, and the positions of electrical boxes and a suspect nail, an inspection of the interior of the wall in that area is more than warranted.
The risk of inspecting inside that wall and finding nothing is at most an hour of wasted time, the risk on not inspecting that wall and not seeing fire damage that is there is the risk of a reoccurrence with more devastating results.
Pete C.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

What *would* you consider to be conclusive proof that you're wrong? You don't even consider a *photograph* to be conclusive proof that you were wrong about the discoloration on the siding.

Indeed it could -- the side in free air and away from your presumed heat source would be much *cooler* and therefore much *less* likely to be discolored.

That argues against an external heat source. It does *not* argue *for* an internal heat source.

???
The damage to the siding is *much* worse than the damage to the Tyvek.

I'll take your bet -- you said 95%, I think, that the OP will find evidence of a fire interior to the wall. That's 19:1 odds -- I'll take that, and be happy. What are the stakes?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:34:31 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

So what? The siding and the Tyvek are made from two different materials. In a car crash, does the glass dent like the metal parts? Get a grip, doofus.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The point is that Pete is claiming quite the opposite -- that the Tyvek is damaged more badly than the siding -- to support his assumption that the damage was caused by an internal heat source. It's clearly obvious in the photos posted by the OP that, in fact, the siding has sustained far more damage than the Tyvek underneath it, both in terms of the severity of the damage, and the size of the damaged area. This argues strongly for an external cause, but Pete is so firmly wedded to his notion of an internal heat source that when presented with evidence indicating otherwise he denies it exists (in the case of the discoloration of the siding) or states it to be exactly the opposite of what is plainly visible (as in the case of the extent of the damages to the siding and to the Tyvek). Get the point, doofus?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:07:30 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Man, are you ever slow. The Tyvek is a DIFFERENT material regardless if you think it, or the siding has sustained more damage. The two of you are a couple of babbling nitwits.
Here's a usenet "rule of thumb" that may help you: If you take more than 3 or 4 posts to win an argument, you automatically lose. Further posting just makes you look exactly like the fucking retard you are arguing with to onlookers.
The first of you two that stops posting in this thread will be viewed as slightly smarter and more mature than the other, but it's too late for either of you to retain any dignity.
The tyvek and the siding are both in better shape than you two.
See ya!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

While I'm by no means convinced of what the cause actually was, the solvent was rubbed off with a rag.
I could see a solvent dissolving into the siding, and not showing any physical effects until some time later when hit by high temperatures because the vinyl's melt point has effectively been reduced, and raises only slowly as the temperature forces outgassing.
Eg: applied in the fall, doesn't show any severe effects until full hot days in the summer, which have driven out the solvents and the plastic rehardened.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Chris Lewis wrote:

The OP indicated spring '06 for the solvent and it's now summer '07. Summer '06 apparently went by with no issues.
Pete C.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

[I should have said "which have _since_ driven out ..."]

Yes, I know, but I'm not getting warm and fuzzies that the OP's recollection is entirely accurate and/or complete.
The melt pattern on the Tyvek makes me think hot wiring between the two indoor outlets. But the vinyl damage seems a bit too widespread for that.
Vinyl will likely sag/distort at temperatures well below what would singe/discolor OSB. So, discoloration/lack thereof isn't terribly compelling.
Wiki torches? Citronella candles? Heck, a plate of just cooked and still very hot burgers might be able to do something like that in a short period of time.
The other comment about the shadow from the fixture is interesting. Is it possible that the glass on the fixture can focus a hot spot of light on the wall in that area at certain times of the day?
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
how the HELL is a wire going to get hot enough to melt vinyl, but not burn the wood between the wire and the vinyl???? Jeeeeze you people...
steve

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.