I don't believe arcing itself generated the heat, I believe arcing caused a fire in the wall cavity that generated the heat before it self extinguished. I'd put 80% odds on the OP finding significant fire damage in the wall cavity when he opens it up.
Pete C.
The OP indicated spring '06 for the solvent and it's now summer '07. Summer '06 apparently went by with no issues.
Pete C.
No, I think he might have done it *this* spring instead of last. But Chris Lewis also posted a plausible explanation of delayed effects.
I based my statement of "no apparent damage" on the fact that what's visible in the photo looks about the same as any other OSB I've ever seen. And, of course, there may be damage that's not readily apparent, so I'm not willing to say "no damage". Just "no apparent damage".
In the original photo, the center of the damaged area can be seen to be at roughly the same height as the handle on the sliding door. In the second set of photos, that same handle is visible at roughly the same height as the countertop backsplash -- thus, while some of the damage is indeed below the cabinet top, not all of it is. Nearly half of it is above as well, and the visibly damaged area on the outside definitely extends at least a short distance above the top of the backsplash.
I'm convinced, too, that it's external. But I still think it's from the stain: it's right there, right where it would have gotten hit from the overspray that the OP already said happened -- and it's just about the color I'd expect it to be, too, from that color stain being sprayed onto that color siding and then wiped off with some organic solvent.
Look at the OP's first photo again, too -- down at the bottom, just above the deck, you can see overspray that was *not* wiped off with Lift-Off or whatever he used. Same color, but no warpage.
Right, and that's exactly what caused the damage to be in that pattern. :-)
Not even for half a minute, my friend.
So suddenly OSB has the same fire rating as sheetrock? I'm sure the fire marshal would be very surprised.
Pete C.
Looks like discoloration to me. More than that, looks like the height and shape of a gas grill. Looks like the heat rose from the grill and went to the left. It spread out as it rose. Move that grill up against the fence and see how well the outline fits. Oh right, too late for that, the siding is gone.
Besides that, there's no need for name calling.
From what I've seen, I wouldn't.
Yep.
I'll take that bet -- I think it's external by about 90%... :)
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Where did I say that? First, you can't see things that plainly *are* there. Now, you *are* seeing things that *aren't* there.
I retract my suggestion that you have your eyes checked. The problem seems to be an inch or two farther back.
If I were there and could see it directly, I might not either, because then I could conclusively judge the condition of the OSB and the siding. Lacking that, since OP isn't sure enough on his own, I can only recommend the safest course of action which is to exclude the possibility of Pete's hypothesis.
The possible ramifications of being wrong are too serious to recommend otherwise imo...
Or lit it over there to be closer to the door/kitchen and saw what happened and moved it back real quick and kept their mouth shut! :)
Fits w/ kids very well, or even a neighbor or friend "helping out"...
I'll bet not.
s
"Abundantly clear" only to someone who has already made up his mind to refuse to see any evidence that contradicts his assumptions. (Perhaps you'll recognize yourself.)
To anyone else, the discoloration is plainly obvious. Your continued denial that any discoloration exists is astonishing.
You're just too f****ng stupid to see it. Everyone else can.
Yes, looking again on a CRT monitor it does look like discoloration.
Not buying that one. Based on the size of the outlet next to the door, about 4" which makes that wall section about 24" inches wide, the damage is too far back to align with a grill. Heat from a grill would be almost entirely radiant from it's housing so a grill parked there would have radiated heat farther towards the door. I also note that the damage appears to continue back past the railing making radiant heat from a grill even less likely.
Bad conclusion, particularly given the ease of inspection since the siding is down already, and the consequences if you're wrong.
We'll just have to wait for the results of inspection.
Pete C.
No, no, there's no discoloration. That's just shadows and reflections. Ask Pete. He'll tell you.
I assume this means I'll be seeing an apology from you sometime soon?
Same here.
>
I assume this means I'll be seeing an apology from you sometime soon?
So you're claiming that a fire inside the wall that transfers enough heat through the OSB to deform the vinyl siding is also certain to transfer enough heat through the sheetrock on the other side of the wall to show indications on the fairly dark painted wall surface?
Have you ever seen sheetrock exposed to a fire? The amount of steam released on the side exposed to fire which carries heat away? The significant lag time before the opposite side of the sheetrock begins to heat to any significant level? The fire rating given to sheetrock vs. OSB?
Pete C.
A number of times.
They damage wiring, create shorts and start fires with some regularity. Indeed that is the reason for code requirements regarding stapling wiring back from the edges of the studs and the use of metal nail protection plates at locations where wiring passes through studs close to the edge.
Apparently none that you are able to realize.
True. I never once claimed there was any discoloration on the siding.
I clearly state "soften and deform", and nowhere state "discolor".
Looking at the photo again on a system with a CRT monitor, it does appear that there is some discoloration. In that case I would expect comparable discoloration on the back side of the siding as well. My assessment of the likely cause remains unchanged.
It's not my house that is at risk of burning down based on your bad advice. If my assessment turns out to be incorrect, the only damage is a half hour of work removing and replacing a small piece of OSB.
Not on an LCD monitor it isn't. On a good CRT it looks like it is. One more example of why LCDs shouldn't be used for critical graphics work.
I'm fixated on the evidence that indicated an internal heat source is likely, which includes the more significant damage to the Tyvek, and the fact that the position of the damage to the siding would not align with a grill being moved too close and radiating heat.
The wall segment between the railing and the door is about 24" wide based on the 4" wide outlet. A grill is about the same or greater depth and if positioned there would have also damaged the siding closer to the door. The damage also appears to continue behind the railing, something that would be very unlikely with radiant heat from a grill.
I've seen it plenty, and on an LCD monitor it doesn't appear discolored. On a CRT monitor it does.
Monitor, not eyes. It doesn't change my assessment though since the other evidence clearly supports my conclusion and discoloration of the siding doesn't affect that conclusion one way or another.
No, I've clearly noted the evidence. Indeed the fact that the damage continues behind the railing almost completely rules out an external source. I raise my probability of finding fire damage within the wall to
95%.Discoloration that from what we know so far tells us absolutely and sways the analysis of the other evidence not at all. If you have evidence that there is not comparable discoloration on the back side of the siding, let us know, otherwise we have to base our conclusions on the other evidence which clearly supports an internal heat source.
Pete C.
Your have given a clear example of overlooking other possibilities and fixating on your conclusion. The discoloration was not visible on an LCD monitor, it is on a CRT monitor.
That still doesn't change the conclusion since all the other evidence points to an internal heat source, and absent evidence there is no comparable discoloration on the back side of the siding there is nothing to contradict the other evidence.
Pete C.
Apparently you're the stupid one if you think that.
Pete C.
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