Tricky eBay Transaction

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"Gini" wrote

Gini,
Your response can be aimed towards a multitude of posters on here, you know the ones. They believe what they write to be true, but in fact, it's only their belief.
Too many of them would rather foam at the keyboard blabbering, than to actually learn something useful. It appears they believe arguing and ignoring the truth, makes what they believe is fact.
Your time and knowledge is too valuable to waste it on these types.
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Include yourself in that lis that claims to know what is true. You claimed that Frugal would be protected from loss through Paypal for purchase. No worry. And I provided you with the link to Paypal where it clearly says that the basic Paypal protection is $200. To get the higher $2000 protection a specific list of criteria must be met. The first is the seller must have more than 50 feedback. Doh! The guy Frugal is dealing with has only 10.
And Frugal also reported on his discussions with VISA, that made it clear that if you use a credit card through Paypal as just a standard transaction, you aren't covered. They did tell him if he did a special transaction, upfront notifying them of who the money is ultimately going to via Paypal, sending VISA the contracts, invoices, etc BEFORE the transaction, etc, then they would hand hold the transaction and provide protection, essentially through some type of escrow.
That is way different than the claims the you and Gini made, which is that just use a credit card through Paypal and everything is peachy keen, you're protected just like if you used the card with a VISA merchant.
As I reported earlier, I myself went through this exact experience. I used a Citibank VISA through Paypal to pay for an Ebay purchase, which turned out to be fraud. Citibank told me exactly what I posted previously. That their transaction with Paypal was legitimate and it was not their problem as to Paypal then sending the money to some party that Citibank has no relationship or knowledge of. I suppose you think if you take a cash advance on a credit card from an ATM, then take the cash and buy a watch from somebody that turns out to be fake, VISA is going to take that loss too?
Now, some credit card companies and banks make react differently. But to tell folks that they can just pay with a credit card through Paypal and they are protected is hogwash. And go try pursuing it with Paypal. Unlike VISA, where you can call and speak to a real person, you'll find that with Paypal you're dealing with an email server robot. Eventually a real person gets involved, but even then, I could never speak to anyone. Ultimately I wound up out about $40 on a $175 Paypal/Ebay transaction, and that was becasuse the seller finally relented and made the refund.
I also have a problem with the attitude, "It;s as I say. I don't need to support it with a link, go look for one yourself." That isn't very helpful. Nor is providing links that have nothing to do with the obvious question. When Bigbackpaker said it's a violation of Ebay rules for a seller to take Western Union, what did you do? You posted links to avoiding Ebay fees. Those links said nothing at all about Western Union. All you had to do was provide the correct link, which would have avoided a long heated discussion. Instead you starting hurling vulgarities at me. Real impressive.
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Need I say anymore about foaming at the keyboard?
You just proved my point. LOL
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wrote:

are very analytical, specific and clinical as far as showing you where you (Poppin Fresh) and Gini are/were dead wrong. He is not the one using obscene language and he was the one that was not afraid to admit he was wrong when shown, i.e. WU.

if that's what will make you feel better. mature individuals usually dont laugh when they are in a position to share their knowledge. did teachers in your school laugh at you? Or were you always this smart!
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have your eyes checked. MY problem is spelled out at the beginning of this thread.
"Gini" wrote:

the specific example trader4 gave you; an example that is relevant to my question/problem.
"Gini" wrote:

I've been given wrong answers repeatedly, that much is correct. Needless to say, anything of value was said once and it was dead-on.
"Gini" wrote:

provide a link to support your statement. Had you ever gone to college or written a research paper, you would understand that any claim needs to be supported by a reliable source - referenced and cross-referenced. For example, all non-fiction books and literature have sections called 'references' or 'bibliography'. But how would YOU know? And that is the reason why you dance like a comanche around hot fire and keep sending us on wild goose chase. Trader4 asked you to support your statement. I asked you to reference your source. Yet you choose to point to some "help" files. You might as well point to the congress library.
your choice is: 1) support your claim/statement by providing a specific reference 2) withdraw your statement 3) qualify your statement as an uneducated opinion
"Gini" wrote:

ask eBay question with the likes of you hanging around.
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Trader4 asked you to support your statement. I asked you to reference

As several of us have said, click eBay, Help, search "western union", and you will find several topics covering the many questions (is it legal, is it fee avoidance, etc.) you asked about WU. You can do that for every single question being asked by the many voices in your head. How much more freaking documentation do you need? Plonk.
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On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:41:25 -0400, <h> wrote:

established the restriction on WU use and Trader4 admitted he missed that point and apologized. What Trader4 and I am asking for since Oct 27, 2:31 pm is this:
Gini ( Oct 27, 12:40 am) answered "YES" to Trade4's question:

= and then again
Gini ( Oct 27, 11:16 am) to Trader4's question: I asked if I sell

and that is also what I am asking as there is no point reporting anything if Trader4's example:

Is not a documented, undisputable, fact.
I am not lazy. I looked and I couldnt find it, which of course doesnt mean it is not there. If Gini knows where it is, she should be able to provide that reference within seconds.
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"Frugal Farmer" wrote

that was funny! (The questions were *yours,* remember?) Apparently *you* haven't gone to college or written a research paper or you'd know how to find embarrassingly simple answers without my holding your hand. Did you demand someone else do your research and writing for you in, what, was your highest grade--perhaps 8th? I'll put my academic and published writing credentials up against yours anytime, and I'll be damned if I'm going to spoonfeed a couple of lazy asses who can't even find their way to Help files. Now, go on over to alt.marketing.online.ebay, and quit making a complete fool of yourself there. They'd love to play with you ;-) Sheesh. You could have found those Help files 20 times in the amount of time you've spent here making yourself look totally silly. ==
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Frgual, by now it's obvious Gini realizes that she can't back up her claim, because if she could, she would have provided it by now. The assertion was that if a seller lists 15 boxes of shingles on Ebay and in the course of that transaction, learns that the buyer also wants a case of nails, that the seller must then list those nails and put them through Ebay too. What's easier and establishes that she is correct? Supplying a simple link to Ebay that shows she is right or making post after post of nonsense about how it's up to someone else to prove?
And she and Poppin Fresh were dead wrong in leading people to believe that if you just use a credit card through Paypal you're automaticaly protected by the credit card company in the case that there is a problem. You verified that is false with your calls to VISA, where they told you that unless you follow a special procedure, including notififying them ahead of time, sending them copies of the contract, sales invoice, etc BEFORE doing the transaction that you are not covered. And as I reported here, I went through that exact scenario with Citibank VISA when I had a frauduantly purchase through Ebay/Paypal and the answer was there is no protection from Citibank, because their transaction wtih Paypal was legitimate, authorized by the card holder and that is where their responsiblitly ends. They had no control over who the money was ultimately sent to by Paypal.
Poppins advice was even worse, because the basic Paypal coverage, as I'm sure you've seen, is only for $200. For the max Paypal coverage of $2000, the transaction has to meet a bunch of criteria, one of which is that the seller must have at least 50 feedbacks. The guy you're dealing with has 10. So, listeneing to these two, you'd have a whopping $200 of coverage on a $3500 purchase. On, and as another shining example of how you can get screwed, in the Paypal coverage fineprint it says it is only for tangible items. So, if you ordered some concert tickets and got screwed out of $500, that ain't covered at all. Sure, Paypal will try to help if it's indeed fraud, but if the guy refused to refund the money, you're SOL. If you paid for those tickets with a credit card directly, there is little doubt VISA would make good on it.
So, folks can decide for themselves who is right and who if you listen to, you're gonna wind up screwed.
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would like you to support was yours, not mine.

are.
please. I will thank you.

a stupid claim you tell your readers:

are. And how you conducted yourself there, for example in the "Ebay tips on how to not get ripped off". Are those the published "writing credentials" you talk about? Real beauty.... I give you that....

couldnt find anything to support your affirmative claim - specifically the example that trader4 gave you. So please, educate me.
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snip
[snip]
If you have a problem with a seller, pay by credit card and challenge a fraudulent charge, E-Bay will block you from rating the frauduulent seller or from further buying on E-Bay. IOW, use E-Bay onbly if you're willing to give up on normal credit card protections. I guess it hurts their image when a supplier gets a low grade.
E-Bay is trying to operate outside of the normal credit card business plan with which consumers are familiar and it appears if you use a credit card through Paypal you lose a significant amount of consumer protection. If you charge directly to a credit card to get normal cc protection and have to challenge a purchse (e.g,, for non-delivery, or faulty merchandise), E-Bay will prevent you from rating the bad supplier. Because negative ratings may be blocked, one must assume that reported ratings may be artificially inflated.
Example: -- Textbook purchased on an E-Bay site and charged it to a credit card; -- the seller failed to deliver; -- E-Bay wants the consumer to wait 45 days before making a decision on a problem, but the credit card cycle is 30 days. Consumer protection dictates a challenge within 30 days. E-Bay would like to eliminate this consumer protection. -- E-Bay said it is against their (!) policy for customers (!!) to challenge credit card purchases. -- The credit card company said E-Bay's policy is a violation of the credit card agreement with e-bay. -- After the credit card challenge, E-Bay blocked the buyer from contacting or rating the seller, so the seller still carries an artificially good rating even though he hasn't delivered the goods
There are too many other reliable sources of stuff to worry about questionable sources on e-bay, questionable credit card policies and unreliable supplier ratings.
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h wrote:

He's unwillng to listen to anything other than the voices in his head.
I filtered him after his post about not ever responding to the manufacturer / distributor wo contacted him because he "assumed" that the mfg. / distr. would somehow screw him.
He's a waste of electrons.
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On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 08:57:47 -0700, jJim McLaughlin

decision since the mfg, a friend of yours btw, sells aluminum, more expensive, shingles. His product sells for $190/SQ. Payment up front. No guarantees (except yours; and who are you?) the shipment will arrive. Comparable steel shingles sell for $110-$135/SQ. You do the math..
And make no mistake, nobody is asking you to waste electrons if this is all you have to offer. you are not the only one here. There's thousands of others contributing and asking for advice in this forum. You are here just to pick a fight w/ others if things dont go your way since you're the self-appointed cop of this group....?
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wrote:

Geez, can't anyone get the facts right here?
It was never stated that the seller REQUIRED payment via Western Union. It was only said that for IMMEDIATE SHIPMENT the seller wanted payment via Western Union or Bank Draft. It was also stated he would take any other form of payment where the money winds up cleared in his bank account BEFORE he shipped. So, he'd clearly take a check and wait for it to clear
So, again, please show me where any of that, including offering Western Union as a payment option is a violation of Ebay policy by the seller. I'm sure you can find something where Ebay recommends using Paypal instead of Western Union. Gee, you think maybe that's because they own Paypal? But please show me where they say a seller can't accept Western Union as a payment option.
If you can't then be decent enough to retract your slam.
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But please show me where they say a seller

I've already posted the relevant quote from eBay, and you blew it off. Look it up for yourself in the "Help" section. WU is NO LONGER ALLOWED by eBay for transactions.
Plonk.
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On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:24:11 -0400, <h> wrote Re Re: Tricky eBay Transaction:

No, it is not possible.
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wrote:

My wife is an ebayer, and her rule of thumb is that if they don't accept paypal or CC's don't use them. She has had problems with sellers but because she only uses paypal they have been easily solved.
John
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On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:09:54 -0700, runsrealfast

..just got off the phone w/ visa customer rep. Paypal is just a 'middleman'. If paypal transaction is covered by a certain amount (i.e. $200 - link at top), it means the seller put up $200 as his collateral. Nothing else.
Now, let's say transaction worth $3000 goes through. The merchandise is disputed a few days later. Since the seller most likely already transferred (spent) the $2800 he/she received, paypal can only yank the original $200 from the seller's account, not the disputed $3000. Paypal, as a middleman, is just making sure they dont end up on the hook for uncovered portions of transactions initiated by unscrupulous sellers.
and that goes to show the quality of advice you get here from the likes of Jim McLaughlin and Anonymous.
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Frugal Farmer wrote:

But, the Consumer Credit Protection Act trumps PayPal. PayPal may only cover $200 out of their pocket, but if you use a CREDIT CARD (not draft card), and protest the payment the card issuer is on the hook. It depends again, as someone else has pointed out, whether you're talking credit of debit as to what the rules are; therefore the advice from VISA may or may not be appropriate.
But, as someone else already noted, if you're uncomfortable with the transaction, your choice is to either bite you tongue and go through with it or not -- the seller doesn't have to change his published business practice, eBay or not, to cater to you. If he is in violation of eBay policy, then you can take that up w/ eBay, but even if he changes that doesn't mean he has to accept a credit card, PayPal or no.
--
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