Still more on Prius runaway

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http://tinyurl.com/yeruhj7
The article is from Forbes. The author is critical of the press that swallowed the story hook, line, and sinker. He says he found several flaws that a newsman should've found.
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On 3/15/2010 10:40 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

Today's "newsmen" are idiots. They write faster than they think, if they think at all. Unfortunately most of the public believes them. This story smelled from the beginning.
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It's market driven and today's public love prefer hysteria over substance. If you want news, get it in a newspaper; if you don't want to deal with paper, get the same over the internet.
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"People everywhere confuse what they read in the newspapers with news."
-A.J. Liebling
--
I get off on '57 Chevys
I get off on screamin' guitars
  Click to see the full signature.
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Kurt Ullman wrote:

Yeah, well said. I was going to mention that about the last place I would go to get news is from the local newspaper. Well, unless I wanted the kind of "news" that was made up adults acting like whining children living in a fantasy world, anyway.
About the only place I've ever seen anything approaching objective coverage is the WSJ.
Jon
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Jon Danniken wrote:

On the Editorial Page.
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wrote:

???
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On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:31:13 -0700, "Jon Danniken"

Comedy GOLD!
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If 34 times using the F word offends you don't click the link, but he lays it down fairly, strange he needs a mask though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ4PtafRB9c&feature=player_embedded

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On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 06:55:39 -0700 (PDT), Eric in North TX

So, we have now firmly established that you can stop a Prius by putting it in neutral IF THE CAR IS OPERATING NORMALLY.
Big Deal. I think most people already accept that.
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On Mar 16, 9:10am, snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

If it bleeds it leads .......
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On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:40:32 -0500, Dean Hoffman

As told in the article from Forbes, where it says he was afraid to shift to neutral, afraid to turn off the car, if it's a hoax as it sounds, how did the driver think he would get away with it?
Maybe he didn't. I can easily imagine Toyota paying him 10, 20, 50G to be a bogus complainer, to make all the other complainers seem more likely to be bogus.
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It seems somewhat paranoid every time some story that may have some doubtful angles to suggest that thre is some as yet undiscovered plot?
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On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:29:41 -0700 (PDT), terry

Not to me. 50,000 is enough to buy an hour's time from a lot of people, as well as any time he ends up spending with reporters later, and any embarrassment he might feel by being called a hoaxster. They won't be able to charge or convict him of anything with what they have now. Even if they somehow find out about such a plot, and can prove it, I think "filing a false police report" might be the most he is guilty of. Maybe he needs a new car now. So they can throw in 40,000 more or whatever one of those costs.
At first this was for me just a mathematically derived possibility, but on second thought it seems very possible. After all, as some room freshener's advertisement says, we don't just cover up bad odors (as more advertising by Toyata would do), we make the odors disappear (as discrediting complainers would do.) For 10, 20, 50 thousand dollars paid to Sikes, they can accomplish a lot more than a million dollars of advertising would. One such phony complaint can make the real complaints seem a lot more likely to also be bogus.
This reminds me of the Canuck letter, forged and planted by Nixon's employees, to discredit Muskie, and lots of other things done by the Plumbers for the benefit of Richard Nixon. Or the break-in at Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist's office. Most discussions of that fail to mention the motive. The motive was to find something humiliating about Danel Ellsberg, that he told his psychiatrist, in order to discredit Ellsberg, and in so doing, discrredit the Pentagon Papers, which embarrassed the Nixon administration. Even though nothing about Elllsberg personally really makes the Pentangon Papers any less embarrassing to Nixon and his administration. But they still thought it would help and in fact it probably would have. All the things in this paragraph really did happen.
How many more things like the things Nixon did have been done by others, but not learned of because there was no investigation. The Canuck letter wasn't disclosed iirc until years later, after the Watergate burglary and the investigation that came from that. Had it not been for Watergate, no one would have known about their role in the Canuck letter or the other things that Nixon's Plumbers did.
Also, I can't recall details but I have a vague feeling there have been other such attempts to discredit a manufacturer. Maybe all my recollections are from movies, but if movie writers can think of such things (or copy them from true stories) , a Toyota exec can also. It also reminds me of inserting people who look like union picketers to start violence on a union picket line, to discredit a union; or to insert those who appear like violent radicals into left-wing groups, to plan and execute violent acts, to discredit peaceful radicals. IIRC, the FBI itself did that. Again, I can't remember if those things actually happened, if I saw them in movies, and if so, I probably never knew if the movies were based on real life.
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You're being way excessively paranoid. The downside of such a scheme backfiring is so totally overwhelming as compared to the marginal benefit that no one with any sense would consoider it for more than a moment.
Clearly this guy has issues that existed long before the toyota problems. When you put 300 million people in the mix some nut jobs that own toyotas are going to crawl out of the works.
Most real cases of runaway cars can be traced to throttle confusion when the post mortem can't find anything mechanically wrong. The high percentage of elderly in these mystery runaway cases supports that.
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On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 06:00:28 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc

I think I'm just the right amount of paranoid.

It may well support "most", which is all you say, but it can't support "all". There are always new things that arise.
One of the things that convinces me is the way they say flatly, There are no electronic problems. Not, We have found no electronic problems. (but we're still looking)
This says to me that a) they don't understand the nature of testing and finding, b) the statement is made more to reassure than to report what is known, c) they are bluffing, and may have done even less testing than one would think.
I'm pretty sure this will turn out to be an electronics or programming problem. No one has said anytyhing afaik about revieweing the computer code. They should have someone who's never seen it before go over it, line by line.
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wrote:

That is EXACTLY what Toyota has been saying. They have found no evidence of electronic problems but are continuing to investigate the alleged problems. They have said they are unable to rule out anything 100% at this time, but have seen NO EVIDENCE that there is an electronic problem involved to this point.
At least that's what Toyota Canada has been saying.
They can't fix anything that they cannot find.

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On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 18:28:47 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

At the US Congressional committee hearing, that I watched or listened to because nothing else was on, I think the guy from Japan, maybe Toyoda himself**, said flatly "There are no..."
**There are often more than one person sitting at the witness table. If I listened on the radio I also saw a short bit on the news, but hours later.
I was also turned off because Toyoda was testifying about their being no electronic problems, and unless he is a techie who hangs out in the lab, he's just repeating what someone else said, maybe 3rd or 4th hand even. I was disappointed that afaik no Congressman tried to make that point, maybe becaue none thought of it.

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On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 18:28:47 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

What percentage of prisoners in prison claim they didn't do anything?
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On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 21:26:19 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

are accused of - and a surprising number would be telling the truth. A small but siseable number who say they didn't do anything ( or at least what they are accused of) are also telling the truth.
And saying there has been NO EVIDENCE of an electronic problem has NOT been disproved. Their may be suspicion - but up to this point, all 3 known causes of unintended accelleration on Toyotas have been STRICTLY MECHANICAL.
Mats jamming the pedal Stiffness in the accellerator pedal Corrosion in the electronically controlled throttle body (causing stiffness - not electrical malfunction)
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