Ok, guys, here's the challenge: What to do to prevent brush strokes. And,
don't tell me roll it on, because that just makes the 'brush' strokes
different, less controllable, and a giant mess if not careful.
Problem: After painting, the wall looks like corduroy! Using 'high
quality' paint from Dunn Edwards. I'm fighting brush strokes like gang
busters! Perhaps, it is because the paint is a bit tacky within 10
seconds, and 'dry' to the touch within a minute !! No wonder the paint
can't flatten BEFORE it's dry!
Actions to date:
I added Floetrol, from Home Depot. That, just changed the color a bit.
and cost a lot. Seems like coating the wall with Floetrol and a little
I added Glass Cleaner, cheap from Walmart, Not bad, getting closer.
Have not tried adding a bit of distilled water, yet.
Consider the Dunn Edwards paint left by the painters circa 2010 - use
sparingly, keep for perfect matching, call it Paint A
Also, consider the 'new' Dunn Edwards paint same color, but they admit to
'slight' change in color nomenclature, call it Paint B.
Smell of Paint A is pungent, rarely have to stir it in its 5 gal bucket,
and NEVER leaves a paint stroke. That stuff comes out FLAT!
Smell of Paint B is pungent [but different], have to stir each day before
use, and ALWAYS leaves paint strokes.
Need a solution:
What I need is a 'wetting' chemical that makes/allows the paint to go
flat BEFORE it dries.
Should I add Jet-Dri?
On Thursday, August 22, 2013 10:30:21 AM UTC-4, Robert Macy wrote:
I don't know what you mean by that. Rollers don't leave brush strokes.
They can leave roller ridges, but with a good paint and decent technique
it isn't hard to avoid. If you're painting areas where a roller can
be used, I don't know of any pros that would use a brush, except to cut-in
first. Because they leave a more consistent, mark free surface over
areas where they can be use is one reason why they are used.
I've never heard of adding that to paint.
cheap from Walmart, Not bad, getting closer.
What does Dunn Edwards say to add. All the latex paints I've
used say they can be thinned with water if necessary. It's kind
of interesting you'd put glass cleaner in it, but for water
you want to use distilled?
If the paint is too thick, then it will not have time to flow
correctly for the brush or roller marks to disappear. And if you're
having these kinds of problems with that brand right out of the
can with new paint, I'd go to another brand. I've used Benj Moore
recently and right out of the can, it's thick but it definitely
flows fine and doesn't leave marks.
On the other hand, I used some oil based Zinnser stain killer
and it did have the problem you're talking about. Being oil
based I didn't have anything to thin it with and managed to get
through what I needed to do. But I know what you're talking about.
It was drying so fast that the brush marks barely had time to
You do realize that it takes considerable time for paint to actually dry
beyond the finger dry stage, right? And that the paint film becomes
increasingly thinner as it dries over a week's time or more? How thickly
are you applying the paint? You really shouldn't be laying it on thick
enough to leave brush marks.
Concerning rollers, they really do leave a better surface. Again, if it is
applied properly. Best way I have found is to load the roller and them make
an "M" or "W" about 30" square on the wall; one then rolls that - back and
forth - in all directions...up<>down, left<>right, NE<>SW, NW<>SE. Feather
the edges and feather the next "M" into it.
Despite the above, I *do* empathize with you. Many water base paints are
more like soft set Jello than paint and are difficult to feather. I'm not
sure why they make them that way but strongly suspect it has something to do
with women wanting to paint things :)
Personally, I have given up trying to get a good latex paint job on woodwork
(walls, NP); instead, I make a stippled one by re-rolling when the paint is
pretty tacky. Works for me, YMMV.
Time was, I wouldn't even consider using latex on woodwork but oil base
paint is getting too hard to come by.
Good 100% acrylic latex will last every bit as well as the typical
oil or Alkyd based paint. And on exterior it is LESS likely to blister
Heck, even CARS are being painted with "water born" paint now - and
today's car paints stand up MUCH better than the paints of the '80s
My vote would be to try adding water to the paint to thin it out (water
water, not distilled water). I think that will help keep the paint from
drying too quickly and will give it a chance to flow and even out better and
reduce brush marks. You can try it with a small amount of paint in a
separate container rather than mixing the water into the entire container of
I think that the paint companies like to put additives into the paint to
make it "non-drip" so it doesn't drip off paint brushes or rollers. You may
be able to lessen that "feature" by thinning the paint with water.
Dry within a minute? Never heard of an interior paint drying that
fast...is this new, fresh, well mixed, applied at temp./surface
according to label instructions? Sun or wind? Interior or exterior?
What does the label say?
Dunn Edwards is a brand. Which product(s) are you using?
What does the label say? How does the label dry/cure time compare to
your results? If you have followed the label and results are bad,
contact the paint store (not HD or Lowes, I hope) or the mfg. Let us
know what you find out.
This is interesting:
Glass Cleaner? Back in the 70's then living in California, when water base
was just gaining foothold, I fought brush strokes, gumming, and basically
thought the stuff was some kind of rip off. UNTIL! I used some of our Easy
Off Window Cleaner, came in a yellow can, cleaning glass it never left a
streak, beat Windex hands down [Easy Off corp discontinued the product !!]
Originally, if I found a run [usually around some odd structure shape
where the brush squeegeed too much paint] I was screwed. Had to wait hours
and hours to dry, then sand down and recoat to remove the run. Also,
continually fought 'gumming' could not brush out a 'bad' stroke without
doing damage to the 'wet' paint. Outof desparation, I sprayed EasyOff
Window Cleaner onto the surface and it magically turned the paint back
into a liquid - I could take out a run, flatten a stroke, rework,
essentially do ANYTHING I wanted to the water base paint. I found I could
even rework a surface more than 6 hours after completing. So if I found
something I didn't like, simply spray, paint, and done FLAT!! And that's
when I started going extreme: paint, wet 'n' dry sand, paint and end up
with a surface that looked like commercial grade, formica flat. Within a
year, the wood grain would reassert itself so the look came out beautiful.
It was during this time, I gave up on rollers, the cut in left marks, the
stipple left patterns, and damage from trying to rework a semi-dry area
left 'unfogriveable' cottage cheese on the walls! Absolutely worse than a
brush! Best was an artist air brush and oil base paint, now that was
nice, especially for doing the trim around the windows in the french doors.
Using Dunn Edwards in order to match color already used: Dunn Edwards
W6240 WERSAFLAT base.
For what's it's worth, a 'close' color match from Home Depot yielded the
same battles with brush strokes. Even their high end exterior masonry
paint [different color and over stucco] does the same.
Thank you for that URL. Not a lot of real information there except to
decry competitors 'cheaper' products not working well, EXCEPT, the web
info does say that high temperature and low humidity cause trouble. They
don't give humidity number, but do mention 90 degrees, I assume that's
Interior home is anywhere from 82 to 89 degrees [also Fahrenheit] and
being in the desert, humidity is usually in the 10-16% ranges, plus run a
bit of AIR and probably even lower.
Ok, so last night I just poured in the water to thin [guess at less than
10% increase in volume] until the stirring stick has run-off like low-fat
milk. Painted, and can verify VERY thin, because left drops on the floor
EVERYWHERE about every 4 inches. STILL VERY DISAPPOINTING! Dried more
slowly, took around 10 minutes or less to be able to touch the surfaces.
But the results were just 'less' corduroy.
I wish I knew what the professional people had done to that paint. Can't
locate people with all those realestate bubble bursting bankruptcies. Know
they sprayed it on. Oddly that paint which leaves almost no brush strokes
does not seem to need a lot of stirring, nor does it drip off the brush,
just 'miracle' stuff.
I need a chemical wetting agent that keeps this paint from drying out too
I purchased every type. from $0.50 at Walmart, you know the type with a
wad of hair on the end of something resembling wood. Oddly, even this one
is not too bad with the right technique.
In general, the 'least' offensive is a polyester extremely finely
feathered brush that has the ends so fluffy it looks like a cotton swab on
the end. around $8.00 !! for a 2 inch wide.
Last night's effort showed that a 'new' technique helps, and I mean helps,
that is lay the paint on ONCE and never touch it again. That produced some
almost flat areas. But, is fraught with peril of missing sections, uneven
paint layer, and giant glops at an overlap. So is difficult to maintain.
way too thin. the label will state how much you can thin it and also the
expected drying time. there's also an 800 number you can call to ask.
i also only use dunn-edwards, and also live in your area. it is pretty
thick when first poured, probably to help the complaint about drips off
the roller as someone else previously stated. i get good coverage and it
takes a couple of minutes to dry enough to the touch to not leave
fingerprints. i don't get brush strokes when i edge, and rolling doesn't
leave any marks either. i use flat on the ceilings only, and eggshell on
all the walls. i've even partially painted walls with paint that was
stored in the garage for a couple of years, and not been able to see the
difference in texture or color.
you should take your can, a brush, and a piece of wallboard to the d-e
store and show them. they should be able to help you; i see lots of
paint pros in my store when i'm there and the staff is very
knowledgeable and helpful.
I will try the 800 number, the employees at DE didn't have a clue.
Uh,...take a CLOSE look at your paint surface. Bet you have more 'ridges'
there than you believe.
When I'm done with a wall it 'looks' flat, beautiful, BUT! There is one
type of light that hits it that highlights the strokes. Plus, I'm
personally cursed with some visual 'dis'-ability defect that causes me to
see them in plain light. Especially show up at edges and corners where
strokes overlap. Rolling leaves a pattern that my eye seems to catch. That
is, rolling the paint on, not me rolling.
At the DE store EVERY sample color they have on the wall, painted onto
individual pieces of boards, looks like worse corduroy than I'm fighting.
So must be a case of people don't notice.
SOLVED, well a bit. Paint normally with thick, then sand flat with 220.
Two times if have to. Then, surface with 'watery' paint. Makes for almost
NO brush strokes whatsoever.
When I varnish furniture, I thin the first couple of coats to get it
level and into the grain....nice and smooth. I've never been able to
roll paint on walls without getting the shadow effect where the roller
edges go. I think I have one more room to paint; lifetime limit :o)
Kitchen/dining area with beadboard wainscoating.
Thank you for this confirmation. That is, it is my contention that *IF* it
doesn't work well to paint with a brush by making 'small' problems;
painting with a roller will just make 'large' problems. Those were my
Now back to possible solutions.
1. paint, sand, paint, sand, paint with thin - a lot of work and time, but
comes out beautiful!
2. flow on coating ONCE - very difficult to do
3. paint, keep going. When tack free, coat again - VERY difficult to time
With the surfaces along a very sunlit hallway, and the curved edges around
the four sliding doors to the outside, all being within inches of your
face; it is important to make look as good as possible.
Plus, another effect. There is a subtle change in the way the rooms look
when the walls are painted properly. Difficult to describe. Similar to
when rooms are clean; just subtly better.
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