Ok, guys, here's the challenge: What to do to prevent brush strokes. And, don't tell me roll it on, because that just makes the 'brush' strokes different, less controllable, and a giant mess if not careful.
Problem: After painting, the wall looks like corduroy! Using 'high quality' paint from Dunn Edwards. I'm fighting brush strokes like gang busters! Perhaps, it is because the paint is a bit tacky within 10 seconds, and 'dry' to the touch within a minute !! No wonder the paint can't flatten BEFORE it's dry!
Actions to date: I added Floetrol, from Home Depot. That, just changed the color a bit. and cost a lot. Seems like coating the wall with Floetrol and a little paint. I added Glass Cleaner, cheap from Walmart, Not bad, getting closer. Almost works. Have not tried adding a bit of distilled water, yet.
Background: Consider the Dunn Edwards paint left by the painters circa 2010 - use sparingly, keep for perfect matching, call it Paint A Also, consider the 'new' Dunn Edwards paint same color, but they admit to 'slight' change in color nomenclature, call it Paint B.
Smell of Paint A is pungent, rarely have to stir it in its 5 gal bucket, and NEVER leaves a paint stroke. That stuff comes out FLAT!
Smell of Paint B is pungent [but different], have to stir each day before use, and ALWAYS leaves paint strokes.
Need a solution: What I need is a 'wetting' chemical that makes/allows the paint to go flat BEFORE it dries. Should I add Jet-Dri?
I don't know what you mean by that. Rollers don't leave brush strokes. They can leave roller ridges, but with a good paint and decent technique it isn't hard to avoid. If you're painting areas where a roller can be used, I don't know of any pros that would use a brush, except to cut-in first. Because they leave a more consistent, mark free surface over areas where they can be use is one reason why they are used.
I've never heard of adding that to paint.
cheap from Walmart, Not bad, getting closer.
What does Dunn Edwards say to add. All the latex paints I've used say they can be thinned with water if necessary. It's kind of interesting you'd put glass cleaner in it, but for water you want to use distilled?
If the paint is too thick, then it will not have time to flow correctly for the brush or roller marks to disappear. And if you're having these kinds of problems with that brand right out of the can with new paint, I'd go to another brand. I've used Benj Moore recently and right out of the can, it's thick but it definitely flows fine and doesn't leave marks.
On the other hand, I used some oil based Zinnser stain killer and it did have the problem you're talking about. Being oil based I didn't have anything to thin it with and managed to get through what I needed to do. But I know what you're talking about. It was drying so fast that the brush marks barely had time to settle out.
You do realize that it takes considerable time for paint to actually dry beyond the finger dry stage, right? And that the paint film becomes increasingly thinner as it dries over a week's time or more? How thickly are you applying the paint? You really shouldn't be laying it on thick enough to leave brush marks.
Concerning rollers, they really do leave a better surface. Again, if it is applied properly. Best way I have found is to load the roller and them make an "M" or "W" about 30" square on the wall; one then rolls that - back and forth - in all directions...updown, leftright, NESW, NWSE. Feather the edges and feather the next "M" into it. ___________________
Despite the above, I *do* empathize with you. Many water base paints are more like soft set Jello than paint and are difficult to feather. I'm not sure why they make them that way but strongly suspect it has something to do with women wanting to paint things :) _____________________
Personally, I have given up trying to get a good latex paint job on woodwork (walls, NP); instead, I make a stippled one by re-rolling when the paint is pretty tacky. Works for me, YMMV.
Time was, I wouldn't even consider using latex on woodwork but oil base paint is getting too hard to come by.
My vote would be to try adding water to the paint to thin it out (water water, not distilled water). I think that will help keep the paint from drying too quickly and will give it a chance to flow and even out better and reduce brush marks. You can try it with a small amount of paint in a separate container rather than mixing the water into the entire container of paint.
I think that the paint companies like to put additives into the paint to make it "non-drip" so it doesn't drip off paint brushes or rollers. You may be able to lessen that "feature" by thinning the paint with water.
Dry within a minute? Never heard of an interior paint drying that fast...is this new, fresh, well mixed, applied at temp./surface according to label instructions? Sun or wind? Interior or exterior? Drywall?
Glass cleaner?!??
What does the label say?
Dunn Edwards is a brand. Which product(s) are you using?
What does the label say? How does the label dry/cure time compare to your results? If you have followed the label and results are bad, contact the paint store (not HD or Lowes, I hope) or the mfg. Let us know what you find out.
Glass Cleaner? Back in the 70's then living in California, when water base was just gaining foothold, I fought brush strokes, gumming, and basically thought the stuff was some kind of rip off. UNTIL! I used some of our Easy Off Window Cleaner, came in a yellow can, cleaning glass it never left a streak, beat Windex hands down [Easy Off corp discontinued the product !!] Originally, if I found a run [usually around some odd structure shape where the brush squeegeed too much paint] I was screwed. Had to wait hours and hours to dry, then sand down and recoat to remove the run. Also, continually fought 'gumming' could not brush out a 'bad' stroke without doing damage to the 'wet' paint. Outof desparation, I sprayed EasyOff Window Cleaner onto the surface and it magically turned the paint back into a liquid - I could take out a run, flatten a stroke, rework, essentially do ANYTHING I wanted to the water base paint. I found I could even rework a surface more than 6 hours after completing. So if I found something I didn't like, simply spray, paint, and done FLAT!! And that's when I started going extreme: paint, wet 'n' dry sand, paint and end up with a surface that looked like commercial grade, formica flat. Within a year, the wood grain would reassert itself so the look came out beautiful.
It was during this time, I gave up on rollers, the cut in left marks, the stipple left patterns, and damage from trying to rework a semi-dry area left 'unfogriveable' cottage cheese on the walls! Absolutely worse than a brush! Best was an artist air brush and oil base paint, now that was nice, especially for doing the trim around the windows in the french doors.
Using Dunn Edwards in order to match color already used: Dunn Edwards W6240 WERSAFLAT base.
For what's it's worth, a 'close' color match from Home Depot yielded the same battles with brush strokes. Even their high end exterior masonry paint [different color and over stucco] does the same.
Thank you for that URL. Not a lot of real information there except to decry competitors 'cheaper' products not working well, EXCEPT, the web info does say that high temperature and low humidity cause trouble. They don't give humidity number, but do mention 90 degrees, I assume that's Fahrenheit.
Interior home is anywhere from 82 to 89 degrees [also Fahrenheit] and being in the desert, humidity is usually in the 10-16% ranges, plus run a bit of AIR and probably even lower.
Ok, so last night I just poured in the water to thin [guess at less than
10% increase in volume] until the stirring stick has run-off like low-fat milk. Painted, and can verify VERY thin, because left drops on the floor EVERYWHERE about every 4 inches. STILL VERY DISAPPOINTING! Dried more slowly, took around 10 minutes or less to be able to touch the surfaces. But the results were just 'less' corduroy.
I wish I knew what the professional people had done to that paint. Can't locate people with all those realestate bubble bursting bankruptcies. Know they sprayed it on. Oddly that paint which leaves almost no brush strokes does not seem to need a lot of stirring, nor does it drip off the brush, just 'miracle' stuff.
I need a chemical wetting agent that keeps this paint from drying out too fast.
I purchased every type. from $0.50 at Walmart, you know the type with a wad of hair on the end of something resembling wood. Oddly, even this one is not too bad with the right technique.
In general, the 'least' offensive is a polyester extremely finely feathered brush that has the ends so fluffy it looks like a cotton swab on the end. around $8.00 !! for a 2 inch wide.
Last night's effort showed that a 'new' technique helps, and I mean helps, that is lay the paint on ONCE and never touch it again. That produced some almost flat areas. But, is fraught with peril of missing sections, uneven paint layer, and giant glops at an overlap. So is difficult to maintain.
way too thin. the label will state how much you can thin it and also the expected drying time. there's also an 800 number you can call to ask.
i also only use dunn-edwards, and also live in your area. it is pretty thick when first poured, probably to help the complaint about drips off the roller as someone else previously stated. i get good coverage and it takes a couple of minutes to dry enough to the touch to not leave fingerprints. i don't get brush strokes when i edge, and rolling doesn't leave any marks either. i use flat on the ceilings only, and eggshell on all the walls. i've even partially painted walls with paint that was stored in the garage for a couple of years, and not been able to see the difference in texture or color.
you should take your can, a brush, and a piece of wallboard to the d-e store and show them. they should be able to help you; i see lots of paint pros in my store when i'm there and the staff is very knowledgeable and helpful.
That's not "high quality paint." It's junk. Even with a junk brush, decent paint will self-level. Didn't you post before about some paint that wouldn't dry? If that was you, maybe you should hire somebody to buy your paint and do your painting. Anyway, here's a few tips for everybody who's running into junk paint. Buy a quart - or pint if available - and try it out before you pay up for gallons. There's garbage paint out there. If paint doesn't brush or roll well, thin it. Be careful, and thin it very little at a time. If you overthin - it's now junk. And don't use old paint. Buy it when you'll use it, and throw away whatever's left over. Whether oil or latex, only put what you'll use in one work session into the work container, and keep the rest sealed in the can. As soon as your brush becomes saturated near the handle, dirty, or stiffens anywhere, stop. Clean your gear. Same with rollers, but different. If they skip on the surface, or don't leave a smooth, self-leveling surface, something's wrong. Stop and figure out what's wrong.
That may be PART of your problem. I wonder where/how you stored what was left of the original paint...garage, very high temp?
That is plain crazy....no modern paint is supposed to run like low-fat milk. Most are like thick cream. It is beginning to seem that you haven't the faintest idea what the label says or why it says what it does.
If you are painting plain, flat interior drywall, I think it would be best to sand the wall with fine sandpaper and start over with fresh paint from a good brand paint store. The nonsense of drying in 10 sec. or being so runny is just ridiculous.
Paint ALWAYS needs stirring....perhaps the reason you got no brush marks from that paint is that you used the thinner, upper part of the liquid and left the heavy solids in the bottom
I would not bother painting unless I used quality (yes, expensive) paint, roller and/or brush. Good brushes are expensive, but with proper care will last a lifetime. That said, it takes time and practice to gain skill at painting...most of the paint companies have all kinds of tips for choosing product, clear instructions for use, and skill-building advice. A good paint store can also advise what additives are useful or beneficial...a business with experience knows what the sell and how to use it best. Good luck!
I will try the 800 number, the employees at DE didn't have a clue.
Uh,...take a CLOSE look at your paint surface. Bet you have more 'ridges' there than you believe.
When I'm done with a wall it 'looks' flat, beautiful, BUT! There is one type of light that hits it that highlights the strokes. Plus, I'm personally cursed with some visual 'dis'-ability defect that causes me to see them in plain light. Especially show up at edges and corners where strokes overlap. Rolling leaves a pattern that my eye seems to catch. That is, rolling the paint on, not me rolling.
At the DE store EVERY sample color they have on the wall, painted onto individual pieces of boards, looks like worse corduroy than I'm fighting. So must be a case of people don't notice.
SOLVED, well a bit. Paint normally with thick, then sand flat with 220. Two times if have to. Then, surface with 'watery' paint. Makes for almost NO brush strokes whatsoever.
When I varnish furniture, I thin the first couple of coats to get it level and into the grain....nice and smooth. I've never been able to roll paint on walls without getting the shadow effect where the roller edges go. I think I have one more room to paint; lifetime limit :o) Kitchen/dining area with beadboard wainscoating.
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