Paint - still with the 'brush strokes' !!

I agree about the thickness. I haven't done any painting in quite a while and last year painted a couple of rooms with Benjamin Moore. It was thicker than I remember other paints being from 15 years ago, but it was by far the best performing paint I've ever used. No brush strokes where cutting in, no back spatter from the roller, beautiful finish, right out of the can.

At the same time, I just had the fast drying experience that the OP is talking about. That was with Zinnser oil based stain killer. It was drying so fast, I was having a hard time getting the brush strokes out. First I thought it was because it was going on areas that had been repaired, covered with mud. But it performed pretty much the same on the areas that were previously painted.

If I has something to thin it with, I would have done so, but I wanted to get through the job, so I toughed it out. Still, as it dried it did pretty much level itself out, but next time if I need that type of product, I would choose a different brand. But again that was with a stain killer, so they may be thicker and have different properties than a regular latex paint.

If the paint is drying as fast as he says, I think the advice to take it together with some materials to the store and show them what it's doing is good advice. And I'd be choosing a different brand of paint next time.

I normally use BM, but got some Sherwin Williams exterior alkyd semi when I stripped and painted exterior trim on my daughter's house. That paint was like pancake batter, it was so thick, but it went on, spread, levelled like a dream!

I think Zinsser has a water-based stain blocker, don't they? I know the shellac based primer dries pretty fast, but I had to sand that project anyway. Zinsser, I think, might be the oldest of the reliable stain-blockers, but I would use any of the good brands if they make a stain-blocker....the labels are pretty reliable.

I used Zinsser water-based (IIRC) on dark walnut-colored Formica bathroom cabinet....if it didn't work, I would have ripped it out. Worked fine, with semi alkyd over the primer after repairing the powdered particle-board doors that had gotten wet. Moisture would seep between the two Formica surfaces and pop the particle-board. Same thing with an old kitchen cabinet...I now smear a touch of silicone caulk into the seams of Formica on my counter to keep unnoticed puddles from getting down to the p.b.

My mother had some she paid more than that for fifty years ago. Paint brushes have gotten cheaper over the years. China bristle, you know. ;-)

I'm sober enough to say this: F*ck you. Now go back to your inane political crying, dipshit. Your only use to me is to give me the occasion to cuss with no hesitation, guilt or regrets. BTW, f*ck you.

I guess we know the answer to the question now. Thanks for the brilliant display!

And I paint all cut edges of particle board or MDF that might possibly see water. Paint ALL sink cutouts and ALL kitchen counter hidden edges.

It must be stressful having the bullets flying your way without the ability to discourage more of the same.

Thank you for this confirmation. That is, it is my contention that *IF* it doesn't work well to paint with a brush by making 'small' problems; painting with a roller will just make 'large' problems. Those were my experiences, too.

Now back to possible solutions. Three options:

1. paint, sand, paint, sand, paint with thin - a lot of work and time, but comes out beautiful!
2. flow on coating ONCE - very difficult to do
3. paint, keep going. When tack free, coat again - VERY difficult to time properly

With the surfaces along a very sunlit hallway, and the curved edges around the four sliding doors to the outside, all being within inches of your face; it is important to make look as good as possible.

Plus, another effect. There is a subtle change in the way the rooms look when the walls are painted properly. Difficult to describe. Similar to when rooms are clean; just subtly better.

It seems like you're more interested in finding someone who agrees with your unique "problem". Pros almost exclusively use rollers for flat surfaces, eg walls, ceilings and achieve excellent results, without roller marks. The exception would be if it can be sprayed, eg new construction. Even then, I think many of them back-roll it because it leaves a better finish than just spraying. I can use a roller without leaving roller marks. I think others here have said the same. You need a good quality roller of the right nap, good paint, and the right technique.

I'd be looking at what most of the rest of the world is doing, rather than re-inventing the wheel with a complicated, time consuming process. If that Dunn Edwards paint dries so fast out of the can that you can't brush it on, I for sure would not be buying it again for starters. Maybe it's time to get some Benjamin Moore, a Purdy roller and watch a few youtube videos of pros.

I think the biggest reason for roller marks is poor technique and poor paint. If you don't keep a wet line as you work across a wall, you can get roller marks. Under less than ideal conditions (too hot or too dry), crappy paint can dry too fast to keep a good wet line. Also, edging too far ahead can cause roller marks for the same reason. Latex paint forms a single film across the entire surface, if the wet line is preserved.

Cheap paint isn't worth the money "saved".

Agree with everything but the above. The normal procedure is to edge around the whole room, let it dry, then come back and roll the main area. You typically can't edge fast enough so that it's not dry or half-dry by the time you get to roll it. Not when you're cutting in to do a nice clean edge between ceiling and wall, around windows, etc. Also, switching back and forth from brush to roller, wastes time. And it doesn't result in roller marks as long as you roll properly.

Latex

Also if you apply too much paint an/or push too hard with the roller. Either causes extra paint to swuish out at the roller ends. If it happens, roll over them lightly to spread the excess paint around.

Right. And feather both brush and roller work to get a coat of even thickness,

If you have two people, I've always preferred to do it where I cut in with a brush and my helper is directly behind me with the roller.

Unfortunately, that won't help at all if you're painting by yourself.

nate

Not my experience. I do a much better job if there aren't any dry edges when painting a single surface.

I don't have any problem doing both. I generally use a pad to do the edging (pad/roller give a more consistent surface than brush/roller). I do about 6' of edging, top and bottom, then do the center with the roller. At inside corners, I wrap around (feather) to the adjacent wall and let it dry before coming back to finish that wall. I generally do opposing walls so inside corners are dry when I start.

Thank you for the URL. I always liked This Old House until they dumped Bob Vila and went commercial. Met Bob Vila at a party once. Nice guy.

You are correct to allow the paint to pretty much completely dry before trying to overlap. Else, you get a 'gumming' that produces a slightly different [and noticeable] texture change which shows through. But for me, THAT technique does NOT work. My eye spots the overlap *and* the change in texture between brush and roller.

Someone mentioned 'professional' painters to do this. Just making a living at painting does not necessarily mean that the paint job meets the standards required. I WAS a professional painter and because of skill was the one who had to do all the detail/edging work. And I don't even like my work.

From the descriptions here, pretty much confirm the problems I have and sounds like what has been described would not stand up to 'close' scrutiny. If you closely examine the described painting, you would see what I mean. Wait until low light levels, take a hand held spotlight, shine the light so that it 'grazes' along the surface; and look at your paint jobs. Look at that cut in junction, look at those 'overlaps', they all show up. Both my wife [a professional artist] and I 'see' these patterns in normal light and for us they detract, thus the quest to paint better. If you do the spotlight check on my paint jobs, you'll see a 'metal-flat' paint surface - no brush strokes, no marks, no divots in the walls and edges. The effect in 'normal' light? Very subtle. Makes for a 'softer' look and the eye is not distracted away from the overall architectural statement.

But thanks to everyone who jumped in to help solve my problem. I've learned from many, got some great URLs and resources, and confirmation that it takes work to get good results.

Thank you for admiring my house from ??

Good training is worth its weight. You're very lucky. Like hit the ground with your feet running, so to speak.

Don't get me wrong, about the 'perfectionism'. I still see the flaws, but they're now ignorable and insignificant to us.

Interesting comment about "...excessively high performance standards ..." ALL is relative. Who died and left them boss?

I thought I had high standards until ...I've been in homes of some, what I'd call, extremely successful people, actually describe their homes more like mansions. The workmanship was incredible, better than I can do, or even have strived for. One [surprising to me] example, while admiring two tone striping on outside columns - you wouldn't believe the quality of the straight lines down/along the inside of the flutings! To have my host proudly declare he had done that work personally! Wow! I guess his attitude of doing things right carries into his business, too. He made a lot of money, now relaxing in the fruits of his labors, by supplying products based upon those high standards of perfection. I would rather live like that than think in terms of 'it's good enough' or 'getting by'.

OK, I think everyone here probably agrees that there is a difference in texture between the edging done with a brush and the rest of the wall with a roller. It's just that you have to look real close and be looking for it to notice it. That's different than what I thought the original issue was, which was either brush marks being unacceptable and a roller leaving marks. I also would think it would be more noticeable with deep colors, higher sheen, etc.

How about edging with one of the pads? I usually use a brush, but I have tried them. Not sure I looked that closely, but it would seem the pads might leave a finish more like a roller. But maybe that's no good, because I think you ruled out a roller because you say it leaves marks that are unacceptable too. You may have such high standards for surface perfection that only perfect surface prep followed by spray painting will meet them. That's the only thing I can think of for getting a surface without any texture, marks, etc due to the application, ie what you'd get with a roller or brush. I think in the painting world though, painters frequently back-roll after spraying. They use one guy spraying to get the paint on quick, another to roll. I'm guessing that the rolling helps hide the normal imperfections in the drywall that you'd otherwise see.