Replace Halogen Bulbs With LEDs?

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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

but there are plenty of people who prefer incandescent/halogen for the supposed benefit of the extra heat it provides in winter and ignoring the wonderful heat it provides in the summer
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On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 5:36:40 AM UTC-8, Stormin Mormon wrote:

We have a gas wall heater which (unfortunately) replaced floor furnaces aft er a house fire years ago. The floor furnaces radiated heat UPWARDS, thus h eating the rooms. The wall heater also radiates heat upward, thus heating the ceiling. Some heat eventually drifts back down to heat the room. Defl ectors at the wall heater help a little but the end result is still less ef fective and more wasteful than the old floor furnace.
Because of this inefficiency (and gas heaters sucking oxygen out of air!) w e use small electric space heaters for limited time in specific areas (brea kfast, computer,etc.) Elec does cost more, so we use elec heaters that have 'n'-hour auto shutoffs, in case we forget to shut off when leaving area.
Of course in places with cold winters, all the above goes out the windows ( unless properly sealed). Which raises the question how ventilate if openin gs sealed?
HB
HB
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I can't speak for everybody in the North.
We wait for a relatively warm day (say, 30 F), turn off the furnace and crack a few windows open for a while. Once the house temperature drops about 10 degrees, we close 'em back up again and turn the furnace on.
We get some ventilation from our house being older and not all that tight, and of course some fresh air comes in when the doors are opened and when the kitchen or bathroom fans are running.
We've been thinking about installing a fresh air ventilation system that would pull outdoor air into the cold air return ducts and then through the furnace.
Cindy Hamilton
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If you replace a standard 100 watt incandescent bulb with its halogen equivalent the wattage will drop to 72 watts; so the heat provided by the halogen will be down by 28% since there's a 1:1 correspondence between bulb wattage and heat output.
Tomsic
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On Monday, December 2, 2013 6:43:00 PM UTC-5, Gary wrote:

Research suggests a major reason for CFL bulb failure is when electronics are positioned above the light and in a confined areas where heat does not ventilate. Same problem was noted in some electronics magazines for LEDs. Whereas the LED is more efficient, it still produces significant heat. T herefore requires fixtures that permit airflow past the bulb.
Try but a few the first time to learn if excess heat is a problem.
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On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 12:47:20 AM UTC-5, westom wrote:

ot ventilate. Same problem was noted in some electronics magazines for LED s. Whereas the LED is more efficient, it still produces significant heat. Therefore requires fixtures that permit airflow past the bulb.

You don't need airflow past the bulb. You just need a design that can dissipate the heat from the LED itself. They have LED recessed ceiling fixtures that even come with a gasket to seal them off completely and pass ASTM 283 standard. In fact, th at is one huge benefit, that you can have a recessed light with no air leakage into an attic, etc.

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On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 9:17:26 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

No air flow over a heatsink that cools the LED means it overheats.
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On Wednesday, December 4, 2013 8:59:19 AM UTC-5, westom wrote:

Then the typical LED recessed light that one buys should have specs and install instructions that say airflow past some heatsink is required. Yet there are plenty of them from the major manufacturers where:
A - They are specifically sealed and certified to be airtight between the living space and the attic. That is a major advantage of LEDs, that you don't have hot air in the winter and cold air in the summer leaking into the attic, cathedral ceiling, etc.
B - The housing is rated for direct contact with insulation, you can cover it with insulation.
I have yet to see one talk about required minimum airflow. Perhaps you could provide the spec sheet or install instructions that say that.
Heatsinks, etc WITHIN the light are involved. Maybe they rely on airflow within the fixture itself too. But it doesn't require airflow past the fixture to keep it from overheating. Good grief. Typical fixture is only 15W in a 5" fixture, so there isn't very much heat to deal with.
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On Thursday, December 5, 2013 9:05:01 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

In optics engineering magazines were numerous articles on overheating of both CFL and LED bulbs. Fixtures designed for incandescent bulbs do not ne ed same airflow. CFL bulb life expectancy tends to be shorter when the bul b is positioned so that electronics are above the glowing gas. LEDs radiat e their heat into a heatsink that is ineffective if airflow does not exist in the fixture. Both problems seriously diminish bulb life expectancy. A problem not discussed at the consumer level. Similar problems with sodium bulb orientation were not discussed at the consumer level decades previousl y.
LED bulbs (such as those that won the X-prize) need airflow over the heat sinke. LEDs at that wattage have heat problems not found in LEDs at lesser power levels.
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wrote:

w_tom obviously knows about as much about thermo as he does about lightning protection; a few buzzwords.
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On 12/06/2013 07:13 PM, westom wrote:

You know, all my CFL hang down. Interesting.
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You'd think they'd be designed for that use. Where else do you see Par38 reflector bulbs other than in pot lights, mounted in ceilings???
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On 12/07/2013 07:51 AM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Hi Clare,
And most of my CFL's cool down enough to touch with my bare hands in a few minutes. Meaning they are not all that hot. Also meaning that the electronics must be the cheapest, crappiest parts they can find with no thought as to the environment they will be operating in. The only thought has to be the price charged.
-T
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Oh, good grief. Did you not take Thermodynamics at Cracker Jax-U? AGAIN, you confuse heat and temperature.
Economics, is obviously a foreign concept to you, too. Some "engineer". LOL!
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European names.
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On 12/07/2013 06:43 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Hi Clare,
I do believe the official term for that is 3C (Cheap Chinese Crap).
But don't get down too hard on the Chinese. I worked for a guy that imported from China. He spent a lot of time over there. He told me that they would show him what he asked for and a good quality version too. His company always went with the cheapest, frustrating the hell out of the Chinese. So, the moral of the story is that 3C goods are what the American buyer specified. I would go as far as positing that it is because the American public has changed from wanting quality to wanting it cheap.
The anger over the low quality will be long forgotten over the joy of the low price. :'(
I personally would rather pay double and have something last ten times as long, but I am in the minority.
-T
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Now I DID buy a Champion Generator instead of a Honda or Yamaha - Will MABEE use it once every year or so - but I bought a Yamaha Snow Blower instead of an MTD -some years it'll be used 20 times or more, others like last year, 2 or 3 times.
Most of my power tools are quality brand name older pieces I bought used and slightly damaged - fixed them up and noe I have high quality tools at below 3C prices.
I used to work for a company that imported Chinese computer parts. First shipment almost always exceded specifications, but by the third shipment all bets were off - and we paid to have a custom case designed - paid for the dies and injection moulding dies for the plastiv fronts - and our case was for sale in "asian sources" computer magazine for half what we were paying for them before we got our first shipment..
Only way to source from China is to spread the order around. Get some parts made from one source, and others from another source - none of the parts being of any use to anyone without the rest. Then you have "final assembly in the USA using globally supplied components" and no piracy.
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On 12/08/2013 06:19 AM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Hi Clare,
I have heard that story several other places too. It is sad they have so little honor.
The importer I told you of said that the cost of labor in China and the cost to ship here is now break even, so we should be seeing manufacturing start coming back on shore, Hopefully soon!
-T
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On 12/8/2013 9:16 PM, Todd wrote:

Perhaps that's why Democrats are doing their best to turn The United States into a third world country? After the destruction and loss of life, the country can rebuilt into a prosperous powerhouse until the citizenry becomes fat and happy, too complacent to care what's going on then the cycle will start all over again. ^_^
TDD
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On 12/08/2013 07:28 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

Hi TDD,
I wish the democrats would dig up John F. Kennedy and run him for president again (maybe teach him to keep his pants zipped during the resurrection process). My, oh my, has that party changed.
-T
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