Propane rip-off: big sellers of exchange tanks are not filling them all the way

[DerbyDad03]

Errr...maybe because in some cases they're not available anymore? But you know what, even if they are, it doesn't mean I'm going buy it. What if, due to a sale or coupons, the unit price of the smaller container of Ice Cream is less than that of the bigger one? As I've said quite a few times before: it's all about the unit price, not the size of the container.

I don't need to make my voice heard. It appears you've missed my point during this entire discussion It doesn't bother me that they've kept the price the same and lowered the quantity. They haven't fooled me. They haven't "ripped me off". I know exactly what they're doing: They're raising the unit price and as long as consumers are aware of that what difference does it really make? No matter how you look at it they've raised the price.

Not if it's marked as 15lbs. Not if it's marked as 15lbs. Not if it's marked as 15lbs. Not if it's marked as 15lbs. Not if it's marked as

15lbs. Not if it's marked as 15lbs. Not if it's marked as 15lbs. Not if it's marked as 15lbs. Not if it's marked as 15lbs. Not if it's marked as 15lbs. Not if it's marked as 15lbs. Not if it's marked as 15lbs. Not if it's marked as 15lbs.

So what? If I don't read the label then I'm a lousy consumer. It's my responsibility not the manufacturer's. I don't need my hand held by a manufacturer's rep (via some big sign) when I pick up the tank and I don't need a store employee stopping me and asking if I know how much fuel is in the tank. It's my responsibility to be aware of what I'm buying, nobody else's.

Then I guess you haven't been ripped off. Good for you.

[SteveB]

I'd sure like to know what you've been told 'cuz as I've said, for decades I've been running mine until the grill flames die, and no one

- not BJ's, U-Haul, the local rent-all places or anyone else that fills propane tanks has ever said anything to me.

******

Okay. It went something like this:

If you bring in a tank that has absolutely no pressure, that means we have to purge the air out because it may have some humidity in there. We're not going to charge you this time, so please at least be sure to close the valve. Maybe they were fussing because I brought in a tank with an open valve.

You speak as if just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it hasn't happened to someone somewhere. I've had heart surgery and broke my back. Has that happened to you? If it hasn't, is that grounds for you to say that it never happens to anyone?

Steve

[SteveB]

With scuba, there's a difficulty in using a partial tank. Like you, I do try to use a tank until it just splutters, and then I change it. But sometimes I come out, and the flame is out completely, meaning there isn't enough in there to fill a BIC lighter.

Steve

[Jim Yanik]

"SteveB" wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Just because a tank runs out of propane does not mean air has entered the tank.It just means the internal pressure(of propane) equals outside air pressure. The tank would have to have a lower pressure inside for air to enter. That aint gonna happen.

[DerbyDad03]

Actually, you read what I write and interpret how I speak.

I never implied - nor meant to imply - that you weren't told what you said you were told. I simply stated that no entity has ever told me not to empty my tank before bringing it in to be refilled. In fact, I even said "assuming that when my grill flame goes out, the tank is empty" - meaning perhaps my tanks weren't empty so purging wasn't required.

I then asked what you were told - out of curiosity, not doubt - because, as I stated, I've had my tanks filled at numerous and varied places and the subject has never came up.

No, but when I was a teenager I had my nose surgically put back into place after someone used a belt buckle on it, and I've had my bicep tendon reattached to my elbow - just a few months ago in fact.

I'm glad you survived your heart attack.

[SteveB]

Actually, you read what I write and interpret how I speak.

I never implied - nor meant to imply - that you weren't told what you said you were told. I simply stated that no entity has ever told me not to empty my tank before bringing it in to be refilled. In fact, I even said "assuming that when my grill flame goes out, the tank is empty" - meaning perhaps my tanks weren't empty so purging wasn't required.

I then asked what you were told - out of curiosity, not doubt - because, as I stated, I've had my tanks filled at numerous and varied places and the subject has never came up.

No, but when I was a teenager I had my nose surgically put back into place after someone used a belt buckle on it, and I've had my bicep tendon reattached to my elbow - just a few months ago in fact.

I'm glad you survived your heart attack.

*****

So, bottom line, it just depends on the geek behind the counter. When they were changing the tanks for OPDs, there was almost a no questions asked attitude. Other people here have stated, and I confess to taking in tanks that I knew were very old, yet they changed them out to get the repeat business. Then, I'm almost sure that you have run into the opposite side of the coin, wanting everything except a blood sample before they will refill your tank.

I vote with my money. I don't come back. And if it is an issue that I won't be back over, I am sure to let the manager know why.

YMMV

Steve

[Ed Pawlowski]

Errr...maybe because in some cases they're not available anymore? But you know what, even if they are, it doesn't mean I'm going buy it. What if, due to a sale or coupons, the unit price of the smaller container of Ice Cream is less than that of the bigger one? As I've said quite a few times before: it's all about the unit price, not the size of the container.

******************************************************************** My point is that there is no valid reason to change the container size except to decive the consumer. You won't openly say that you agree, but everyone knows that is the real reason. Larger containers are more economical as I pointed out also.

I don't need to make my voice heard. It appears you've missed my point during this entire discussion It doesn't bother me that they've kept the price the same and lowered the quantity. They haven't fooled me. They haven't "ripped me off". I know exactly what they're doing: They're raising the unit price and as long as consumers are aware of that what difference does it really make? No matter how you look at it they've raised the price.

************************************************************************** SAee above comment as to why that did that.

Not if it's marked as 15lbs. Not if it's marked as 15lbs. Not if it's marked as 15lbs. Not if it's marked as 15lbs. Not if it's marked as

15lbs. Not if it's marked as 15lbs. Not if it's marked as 15lbs. Not if it's marked as 15lbs. Not if it's marked as 15lbs. Not if it's marked as 15lbs. Not if it's marked as 15lbs. Not if it's marked as 15lbs. Not if it's marked as 15lbs. ************************************************************************************* No matter how many times you say it, no matter that it is marked, the people that came up with the idea just figured few people would ever notice. Now that prices are down, they have not gone back to 17# either, keeping even more profit.

[gfretwell]

Agree 100% and it will usually be pretty cold when it dies so as it warms up it will still be out gassing. I do try to get the valve closed as soon as possible tho, because it can breathe in some air if it heats and cools a few times with the valve open. As long as the guy filling the tank cracks the bleed screw there is no reason for a purge anyway, even on a new tank.. I just believe that practice is illegal anywhere that they have strict air quality laws (like, do you have the rubber vapor recovery sock on your gas pumps?) Some places do, others don't care.

[salty]

Your problem was not that you let the tank get empty. Your problem was that you foolishly left the valve open. That valve should be closed after EVERY use.

[salty]

It does if you leave the valve open!

The sun comes up, the sun goes down.

[gfretwell]

Propane tanks have a shutoff in the nozzle that cuts the gas off when you disconnect the regulator so they will only "breathe" if they are still hooked up to the grille and the burner is turned on. Try it

[DerbyDad03]

Interesting... Earlier you complained that we were getting "deceived" when they didn't fill the propane tanks with the full 17 lbs (even if they marked the container with the actual net weight) and argued that they should change the tank size to match the contents. Now you say that the only valid reason to change the container size is to deceive. Which do you want?

reason. =A0

Wow - you can read my mind over the internet. What technology is that

- MoIP?

Have you ever considered the "price point" argument? At some point the price - not the unit price, but the purchase price - of a given item might turn a consumer away. To stay under that price point, you simply raise the unit price and lower the number of units in the container.

Once again, no deception because the price is given, the unit price is available and the net weight is marked.

**=AD**********

That's where being an educated consumer comes in. I just paid $13.99 for a full 17 lbs at my local BJ's. If I choose to buy a 15 lb tank of AmeriGas at the Orange box for more than that, I may not be making a great choice, but I didn't get deceived by anyone. I choose to pay the higher price for less merchandise - merchandise that was clearly marked with both the price and the contents. In this case, I voted with my feet by going to BJ's.

Look, it's clear that you want them to raise the purchuse price by keeping the containers the same size as they've always been. That's fine, good luck getting them to do that. Really, I mean that. However, don't fault me for being a pragmatist. Ice cream now comes in smaller containers. Coffee now comes in smaller containers. Some items come in the same size container but have less merchandise inside. Bottom line is they raised the unit price but kept the purchase price the same. It's still a price increase, but as long as the package is marked accurately, no one is getting ripped off.

RTFL

I'm done.

[mkirsch1]

The sign of a "true conservative": Cries of "There should be a law against that!" the second something affects THEM.

Whatever happened to personal responsibility? You're responsible for making sure that you get what you paid for. If you assumed that package of ice cream was a half gallon (64 fl. oz) and you find out that it's only 56 fl. oz. when you get home, isn't that YOUR fault for making the assumption?

[DerbyDad03]

I've been trying to get that exact point across to Mr. Pawlowski for 2 days now.

I'm glad somebody else feels the same way I do.

RTFL - Read the ... label

[Ed Pawlowski]

Maybe old tanks. The new ones have a valve that must be pushed open like the tire valve on your car.

[salty]

You can see how well that works!

Ya gotta close the valve, dude. Otherwise, you can get air and moisture in the tank. That valve you are talking about is not intended to be the main shutoff, and it seals better in one direction that the other. That's why there is that big 'ole knob for you to turn on top. They aren't going to do an autopsy first to see if each individual tank actually has any moisture in it. If you come to get an empty tank filled with the valve wide open, you lose. Zip up your fly and tie your shoes while you're at it.

Sheesh.

[willshak]

on 5/26/2009 6:45 PM (ET) [e-mail] wrote the following:

...besides contributing to global warming, you will get cancer, diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, emphysema, male pattern baldness, and AIDS, too. See here:

[Ed Pawlowski]

I'm glad somebody else feels the same way I do.

RTFL - Read the ... label

***********************************************************

We actually agree on personal responsibility. I just go one step further for corporate responsibility also.

We went from the 17# propane to the 15#. Next year will it be 13#? The year after 11#? Then 9, then 7 then 5 then 3?

While you may never admit it, you probably have not checked that label every time for the past many years. (I don't exchange so I never have). but people do expect certain things to take place. They expect the oil change in their car will have the oil properly topped up, even though running a half quart low is not a big deal. It is expected that milk bottles will be filled, we expect that our houses are framed with the proper amount of nails in each stud. That the dentist fill your tooth all the way.

The real fact is, the gas companies went to a lower quantity figuring few people will notice that the price has been increased. It is marketing and corporate shenanigans at its worst. At least Exxon gave us a full gallon when they charged us $4.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Interesting... Earlier you complained that we were getting "deceived" when they didn't fill the propane tanks with the full 17 lbs (even if they marked the container with the actual net weight) and argued that they should change the tank size to match the contents. Now you say that the only valid reason to change the container size is to deceive. Which do you want?

***************************************************************************** Both. I'd rather see the 17# thank fill to full capacity, not underfilled for deception. If the "new" standard is 15#, then size the tank accordingly. Anything else is bull crap.

Have you ever considered the "price point" argument? At some point the price - not the unit price, but the purchase price - of a given item might turn a consumer away. To stay under that price point, you simply raise the unit price and lower the number of units in the container.

Once again, no deception because the price is given, the unit price is available and the net weight is marked.

***********************************************************

The ice cream companies tried that silly argument. Fact is, they have been using half gallon containers for 60 years that I know of and raised prices along the way as needed. People buy more ice cream than ever. All of a sudden,t he pricek point crap will stop people? I don't think so. Sell at a fair price and skip the sales. It has been years since I've paid full price for ice cream, I stock up wehn it is on sale for half price, won't touch it between times. Skip hte sales and lower the price allt he time.

Look, it's clear that you want them to raise the purchuse price by keeping the containers the same size as they've always been. That's fine, good luck getting them to do that. Really, I mean that. However, don't fault me for being a pragmatist.

******************************** I won't. Just remember that when the tank is down to 3# and you have to go back to the store every time you grill a burger.

[DerbyDad03]

As long as you keep insisting that a package that is clearly marked with the net weight of the contents is somehow "deceptive" there is no point in discussing the issue with you.

RTFL