off topic: new car advice for senior

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On 10/6/2015 7:11 AM, Robert Green wrote:

No, I'm disappointed in the efforts of my peers.
Talk to a "professional" software writer about the quality of the code that he produces (number of bugs, lack of documentation, stilted user interfaces, etc.) and he'll quickly blame it on his boss/work environment: - boss never gives us TIME to test things properly - the bozos in Marketing that come up with these requirements are idiots - the Sales folks who designed the interfaces listened to too many users and didn't impose any consistency on their suggestions - the documentation folks are all English-lit majors and completely clueless as to technology etc.
I.e., the *implication* is that, left to his/her own devices, you'd get a MUCH better product! It's all the OTHER bozos on the bus that are compromising HIS/HER product!
Then, when they are in an environment (FOSS) where there *are* no other bozos *imposing* their will on their efforts, they produce the same crappy, untested, undocumented, poorly defined code! And, when you call them to task about it, they shrug and say, "No one was PAYING me for it, so why should I do those things (that I don't WANT to do)?"
It's like looking at a house that a "professional" painter recently finished painting and commenting on how sloppily he cut in the trim around the windows, the fact that there is paint on the glass, paint on the ground, the mismatch of colors on two adjacent walls, etc. And, when questioning him, he replies "homeowner wanted it done 'on the cheap' so I didn't bother with all the prep work, cleanup, color matching, etc."
OK. But, then, when you visit him at his folks' house (or his own) you notice the same slip-shod workmanship! But, now his "excuse" is "I did the job for free; why should I bother with those annoying details that take so much time to do properly?"
I.e., you've got an opportunity to *shine*; to create something with no "arbitrary" constraints beyond what your own abilities impose. And, instead of rising to that occasion, you *sink* to your typical level of performance.
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On 10/6/2015 10:47 AM, Don Y wrote:

I like the idea of producing quality work/products. It makes more sense to do it better the first time, I think.
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On 10/6/2015 9:21 PM, Muggles wrote:

Consumers ahve "trained" the industry to provide them with untested, low quality products -- because they don't demand/expect better.
If your customers aren't demanding better, what incentive do you have to *do* better?
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Don Y wrote:

To be the best. Personal challenge. Good coder always makes it shortest and fastest. If program can cause hardware problem by pushing it to limit or programmer did not know hardware is behaving. Once users using one application start complaining randomly their number crunch result gives error. Different users reporting without any pattern. After spending time I could focus where the error was coming. I could narrow down the codes (machine instructions) from which I could generate a short script loop. Now I could see the failing errors ~1 error/25,000 loops. When I was chasing related logic gates on the main frame, found it was a timing issue. One gate's leading edge rise time was like 2 nanosecond slow. Hardware fix was devised and field change order(FCO) was issued Because this kinda things software guys, hardware guys never cease to work. BTW, I was Mutician working in the field with people at CISL at MIT.
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On 10/7/2015 12:15 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:

But that's the point -- with FOSS, you have removed all of those outside pressures, constraints, influences, etc. that "get in the way" of your doing your best. So, you should be *showing* your best work -- without resorting to excuses.
I grew up surrounded by craftsmen/tradesmen. The bricklayer had the most *ornate* brickwork; the carpenter the most ornate woodwork; etc. Each effectively said, "I have this skillset. I am my own client. I don't need to 'profit' from the work I do for myself. I can *afford* to show my best effort (even though I may never encounter a client who can afford to pay me to do so!)"
FOSS developers seem to take the opposite approach: I'll just work on what interests me AS IF no one was ever going to see how *incomplete* (because I['m not interested in the WHOLE SOLUTION) that effort WILL be.

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On 10/6/2015 11:35 PM, Don Y wrote:

I guess I demand more of myself.
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On 10/7/2015 9:48 AM, Muggles wrote:

If everyone did that, the world would be a *different* place!
(whether better or worse, I can't say)
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On 10/7/2015 12:36 PM, Don Y wrote:

Sometimes, (I've been told), that I demand too much of myself, too.
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On 10/7/2015 12:32 PM, Muggles wrote:

Sure! I frequently "redo" things that I'd previously considered as "done" -- simply because my skill level has increased or I've leraned a better way of evaluating my previous work.
E.g., each time I bake something, I tweek the recipe based on observations that I made the *last* time I baked it (and wrote on the recipe "for next time"). Instead of "settling" for something that may be "good enough", I want to see how I can make it *better* (if I screw up, I can always return to the Rx that I had used "the time before")
At one point, I strove for consistency in my baking. E.g., so that every cookie tasted and looked like the one before. (I call this the "Oreo" approach -- you can eat them until you fall over because you have no awareness of each *new* cookie entering your mouth!)
Then, I realized that folks would zone out when eating them. They didn't *notice* what they were putting in their mouth after the first ("Gee, this is good! I'll have -- many -- more!")
So, I started deliberately introducing variation to each batch; varying sizes, thickness, hardness/crunch, color, etc. And, noticed that folks found eating them to be far more engaging! As if they were wondering what the *next* one would taste like -- instead of silently assuming it would be identical to the one they were still chewing.
The goal isn't to make cookies but, rather, to make "eating experiences"!
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On 10/7/2015 3:00 PM, Don Y wrote:

I love the idea of creating an "eating experience", too, so I'm a slow eater because I like to actually taste every bite vs. inhaling the fool.
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On 10/7/2015 1:06 PM, Muggles wrote:

I, unfortunately, am the latter type: I "eat to live" (instead of live to eat) so treat it largely as a chore -- to get out of the way as quickly as possible.
But, that doesn't mean that I expect others to have the same "disdain" for food that I have. Instead, I try to exploit their eating patterns and give them pleasant surprises.
I put various liqueurs in certain baked goods -- knowing that most of this will "burn off" in the oven. But, by carefully controlling the bake, I can arrange for a *hint* to remain. Folks that wolf things down never perceive those subtleties. And, folks that are more attentive find themselves frustrated -- when they *sense* a hint of "something" but its gone before they can identify what it was.
For them, the experience is much more memorable.
[The "oreo" analogy is really appropriate! Not many folks "cherish" a memory of sitting down with a bag of oreos...]
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On 10/7/2015 5:43 PM, Don Y wrote:

When I make scalloped potatoes I use real butter and sweet milk along with fresh chopped onions. The difference in the taste just by adding real butter for me is the difference between enjoying the dish and giving it to someone else who doesn't give a flip. If it doesn't taste good there's no point in eating it for me, anyway.
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Muggles wrote:

Potatoes = mucous causing acid causing food, Rememeber how to figure out + and - lead using potato? Milk = acid causing mucous causing, Onion good. I eat to live. One close friend of mine who used to enjoy good food always who knew all the good eating place in town died from stomach cancer almost 20 years ago.
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On 10/7/2015 6:56 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:

I rarely make my scalloped potatoes, but if it's a special occasion I make them and go all out to do it.
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On 10/7/2015 3:55 PM, Muggles wrote:

Most of my meals (for myself) are "checkoff items" -- how quickly and effortlessly can I get the right mix of nutrients into my body without making an "event" out of it. I tend to only spend effort on things that I make for others -- as *they* tend to enjoy these things so I can justify the time spent.
E.g., I'll make three batches of biscotti this week for various folks to enjoy. About 6 hours of my time, total. But, I suspect it will translate into just as many hours of those folks *eating* them (they tend to be eaten patiently, "over coffee")
There are only a few dishes that I truly enjoy. But, even those tend to get "wolfed down" instead of "savored". OTOH, I will enjoy the *memory* of the meal long after it's settled in my GI tract!
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On 10/7/2015 9:43 PM, Don Y wrote:

I guess there are times that I'm just hungry and don't take my time enjoying the food, but if I eat too fast it usually gives me indigestion which I tend to regret! So, eating slower usually removes that problem.
You must be skin and bones if you really don't like to eat much at all.
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On 10/7/2015 9:05 PM, Muggles wrote:

I get the "adequate" amount of calories to maintain a healthy weight. I just don't get them in a slow, savored meal. It's not uncommon for me to eat a 10-12 oz steak. Or a sizeable bowl of pasta. Or, a *couple* of grinders made from a Bolognese sauce on a bun. Sunday lunch is always a pseudo-oriental pork dish -- I end up eating 1/2 pound of pork tenderloin in that meal.
OTOH, I think all I've had to eat, so far, today has been a 4 oz piece of lemon soaked cod fillet. I may make some rice later this evening...
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On 10/7/2015 11:17 PM, Don Y wrote:

ok Now I'm hungry.

yep ... definitely hungry. I need a snack! lol
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On 10/07/2015 08:43 PM, Don Y wrote:

Sounds like a customer for Soylent 2.0.
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On 10/7/2015 9:25 PM, rbowman wrote:

It take a lot of discipline for me NOT to get into the junk food rut -- simply because it is so convenient (zero prep time). If it was as simple as a "tablet"...
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