LED bulbs not so bad

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On 11/30/2015 10:50 PM, Mike Duffy wrote:

We don't have an elephant.
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On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 23:34:15 -0700, Don Y wrote:

Ummm, I guess I left myself wide open for that one.
What I should have said is that people are willing to pay, sometimes a lot, for food that tastes different, let alone better. So why doesn't anyone juice mandarins or other specialty citrii?
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What leads you to believe that nobody juices mandarins/clementines, blood oranges or other "specialty citrii"?
Best fruit juice I ever tasted was freshly squeezed Gewurtztraminer grapes. Unfortunately, the winery preferred to ferment it rather than sell it.
It's the civets (Kopi Luwak), not the elephants that matter to coffee drinkers :=)
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On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 16:38:05 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Sure. Maybe at an upscale mall, or at a Hollywood party. I was thinking more along the lines of Tropicana, where people are already paying extra for the shipping of time-limited heavier non-condensed juice. The closest thing is the Tangerine-added Tropicana.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Ivory_coffee
It's even more expensive because you need to find unchewed beans.
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A few seconds on Google and I'm looking at an image of a bottle of Tropicana Clementine juice.
--
Dan Espen

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On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 12:58:42 -0500, Dan Espen wrote:

Excellent! Now how am I to convince my local supermarket that my whining alone is sufficient for them to stock it? I guess I'll have to await the Amazon drones.
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Takes a lot of fruit to get a little juice. Juice oranges are bred and watered to produce a lot of juice per item fruit.
It's probably not cost effective.
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On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 18:29:22 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Other oranges do taste better. Some people will pay more. Probably not everyone will pay as much for the better tasting juice to the point where it can compete with Valencia, but there should be a niche market enough just for the ostentasios.
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I just juice my own oranges; it's easy enough and powered juicers are pretty inexpensive.
Then again, I have a naval orange tree in the back yard, currently heavy with a couple gross of oranges, just reaching ripeness.
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On 12/2/2015 7:27 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

I don't think most folks understand the difference in taste between "fresh picked", "store bought (fruit)" and "juiced".
And that *before* you introduce the different varieties available!
(e.g., we had to pick from three different blood orange varieties; each with different tastes and environmental tolerances)
I'm not a fan of citrus, in general (excepting the blood oranges -- and only when juiced) -- LEAST of all, grapefruit! But, I am told that leaving grapefruit on the tree until *ripe* leaves you with a much more palatable treat!
The same is true for cantelope.
Apples, of course, are so artificially ripened/reddened that store bought are laughable caricatures of the real fruit! Ditto tomatoes (which are fruits, not "vegetables")
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On 12/1/2015 11:29 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

It's an entirely different structure to the fruit. Juice a lemon, lime or Valencia and you essentially end up with juice and rind. Juice a Navel and you end up with juice, rind and a sh*tload of pulp! Many folks seem to treat pulp as something EVIL -- to be avoided (we have a hard time finding the "Most Pulp" varieties of store-bought OJ when SWMBO needs to supplement our harvest).
Imagine juicing (store-bought) LIMES. I suspect they just put them through a GRINDER as there's so little "meat" there compared to the even smaller amount of juice!

+1
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On 12/1/2015 8:26 AM, Mike Duffy wrote:

[I was originally going to complain about the effort to CLEAN UP AFTER that "processing plant"]

You can buy Blood Orange *soda*, IIRC (ick).
The problem is just one of economics.
How big is the market? How efficiently can you produce the product? (remember, it's perishable so if you can't sell it, you've LOST it!)
What does it cost to make a (FANCY!) hamburger in your kitchen? What does it cost to BUY that same hamburger from a (decent) restaurant?
[I cringe when I see a "bowl of spaghetti" listed for $20. Sheesh! Do I get a BJ with that??]
Our Valencia yields about 7-10G of juice each year. The oranges are tiny (about 3" dia) but contain a lot of juice, per fruit. By contrast, the Navels may be 4 or 5" in diameter, yield a similar amount of juice BUT A LOT OF PULP.
Do you sell that juice -- the same general "yield" as the Valencia -- at the price that folks are willing to pay for Valencia (blended) juice? Or, sell the *fruit* (requiring less processing) at a higher price? E.g., $1+/orange (when OJ is selling for $3 per "half gallon")
I bake a lot. Most of these things are relatively inexpensive to make -- just a lot of *time* (no doubt less if you did it commercially). For a few dollars, I can make ~20 dozen cookies. Go to the bakery and you're paying TWICE what you would for prime cuts of STEAK!
Notice how few (good) bakeries remain? Folks don't, in general, want to PAY for "yummy"; they'll SETTLE for mass produced, cardboard cookies cuz they're so much "more affordable".
I bring sweets, etc. to parties around the holidays as my contribution (so host doesn't have to do as much, etc.). Invariably, they get whisked away and the "store bought stuff" gets served, instead. Yeah, the guests might appreciate mine more, but they'll be happy with the host's offering, too! (hosts, not being stupid, then opt to save the best for themselves!)
Would you pay $30+/G for Navel OJ? Maybe double that for Blood OJ?
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On 12/1/2015 6:04 PM, Don Y wrote:

A couple of data-points: - a dozen "organic" lemons, $19.95 <(Amazon.com product link shortened)> - 2 lbs "fresh" lemons, $15.48 <(Amazon.com product link shortened)> - 6 lbs "organic fresh" lemons, $16.68 <(Amazon.com product link shortened)>
We harvested ~90 pounds of lemons from our (tiny, not yet mature) tree. So, that's "worth" $696.60 (45*2 lbs), $250.20 (15*6 lbs) or $299.25 (~15 dozen) at those "market rates"
This reduced to ~3.5G of juice: - 96 oz (3 qt) lemon juice, $12.95 <(Amazon.com product link shortened)>
So, juiced, they're "worth" about $60 -- regardless of how much sweeter they might be!
Aside from the zest (how the heck much zest can you actually *use*??), what's the difference between the "whole" lemons and their extracted juice?
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On 11/29/2015 08:10 PM, Robert Green wrote:

It's 1 degree F out there this morning. My lemons are frozen.
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On 11/30/2015 8:05 AM, rbowman wrote:

Ick! Why didn't you pick them, first? Even premature, SOUR lemons are better than FROZEN ones! :> (I'm surprised you have citrus that far north -- Montana, IIRC? I'd imagine apples would be the norm!)
We appear to have just skirted the magical 28F so I suspect the exposed fruit fared OK. We tented (teepee'd?) three of the trees last night so they definitely are OK. The lemon and lime are bracketed by masonary walls which should have stored some heat from the daytime temps. The big Navel got the XMAS light treatment. And, the Valencia seems to fare well "exposed" -- possibly due to it's size/mass.
Pro'ly add some more lights to the Navel if SWMBO claims the fruit isn't ripe enough to pick. But, imagine tonight will be marginally warmer than last night. And, the next night warmer still!
Lemon already has blossoms and some fruit started. Definitely "confused" as to the season! :< No problem, it will bloom again in Spring.
Neighbor's pomegranate's are dropping from the cold. He should have picked them long ago (AFAICT, he never harvests the fruit, just keeps watering the trees! What a waste...)
Frigging trees are far more trouble than they're worth! OTOH, SWMBO gets a year of juice out of them and "fresh" fruit through June. Question I always have to ask is how much "grief" I want to endure to make her happy... so far, the calculus has come out in her favor. Not sure if that will continue as I get older and find the protection effort growing more difficult/tedious!
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On 11/30/2015 11:31 AM, Don Y wrote:

Sometimes, the trouble doesn't add up in their favor, BUT we still spot them 50 points so it will. :)
--
Maggie

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On Friday, November 27, 2015 at 5:43:30 PM UTC-6, Don Y wrote:

At Lowe's...not sure how long that sale lasts.
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On 11/27/2015 6:19 PM, bob_villain wrote:

I was checking out the Utilitech 99-cent LED lamps at Lowe's today. Lamp life rated at 2000 hours. What's up with that? I didn't buy any.
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On 11/28/2015 12:21 AM, mike wrote:

I guess you get what you pay for. I looked at other cheap Utilitech bulbs and the 60W equivalent is only 5000 hours. Same size from Sylvania is 25,000 hours and is only a buck or so more.
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The other thing to keep in mind is "dimable" vs. "non-dimable."
The dimable bulbs (i.e. Feits from Costco) tend to be large and heavy. The bulb base has extra electronics to managing the dimming. The "non-dimable" Philips bulbs (traditional style - not the flat ones) are much smaller and lighter weight. Depending on the type of dimmer you have, the non-dimable builbs may still work.
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