Instant Cooling to 35deg.F

[larry]

Our bank coin handers were made in Stuttgart. The workers set their dark beer in the sunny windows so it would be warm for lunch.

They also chuckled at our "Pilsner" beers.

-larry / dallas

[Richard J Kinch]

Go ahead an scoff while you speculate about what's best. I get paid as an engineer to analyze, design, and implement flash chilling systems. I know how these things work, in theory and in practice, on a home scale and on a

1000s of liters/hour industrial scale.

At home I flash-chill cans in under a minute, by the process I described, and with the concrete, quantifiable results I have claimed. It's not speculative on my part. I have analyzed and verifed the direct-contact- with-ice principle both ways, that it works, and that the other ways don't work.

Now if you want to erect a conceit that you know better, go do some experiments with your brine notions and report back. Otherwise your hunches and expressions of contempt for wisdom and experience are just idle insults, and a parody of engineering. Which is what Usenet is mostly about.

[Doug Miller]

Isn't Usenet great, where anybody can pretend to be anything?

[Richard J Kinch]

Except I never pretend. My identity and credentials are plain and easily confirmed.

[Doug Miller]

Sure, whatever you say. What exactly are your credentials for claiming that gasoline is safe to drink and carbon monoxide is safe to breathe, but common household borax is a deadly poison? What exactly are your credentials for claiming that there is no difference between a parallel circuit and a dead short?

[Richard J Kinch]

You forgot my myth-busting assertion that "adding water to hydrochloric acid is OK".

Your weekly snort of contempt for such has gotten quite old and unoriginal. Proverbs 29:9.

[Doug Miller]

[snippage restored]

that gasoline is safe to drink and carbon monoxide is safe to breathe, but common household borax is a deadly poison? What exactly are your credentials for claiming that there is no difference between a parallel circuit and a dead short?

[conspicuous failure to respond noted without surprise]

Thanks for the reminder of another example of your peculiar "knowledge" of chemistry and physics. I admit I'd quite forgotten about that one -- of course, it's not quite such a howler as the others, either, so it was easier to forget.

If you don't like having it pointed out that you're posting baloney, the solution is real simple: stop posting baloney.

[nicksanspam]

I see you are no longer posting about ice and water conductivities :-)

Nick

[Doug Miller]

Tell me, Nick, do you *really* believe ice is a better heat transfer agent than water?

[nicksanspam]

I agree with you that a spinning can in an ice water bath will cool faster than a spinning can in a container of cubes with no water, but you wrote

which is incorrect. Water has a 0.596 W/mC conductance, vs 2.26 for ice.

It's fun to watch you wriggle when you're wrong :-)

Nick

[Doug Miller]

I'll plead guilty to imprecise use of terminology, at least. Water is a far more efficient heat-transfer agent than ice, partly due its greater specific heat, but largely due to its ability to remove heat by convection. You're right that the thermal conductivity of ice is greater than that of water, but that's not all there is to the story -- and I think you know that.

[nicksanspam]

But the icewater bath temp hardly changes...

Nick

[Doug Miller]

Right, until the ice melts. And that's why you use salt when making homemade ice cream: to enable you to have icewater at a temperature lower than zero C.

[Mark]

An Ice/water mixture at 32deg F is probably better than just ICE alone at 32 deg F.

But..

Ice alone could be at -20 deg F or any other colder temperature.

Then the answer is not so obvious...

Ice/water at 32 or ice at -20?

Mark

[dpb]

Ice by itself will in all likelihood be worse than the ice/water mixture because can't easily get full contact w/ the container so the effective heat transfer rate will be less for it than for the water. My gut feeling is still w/ the water. But, of course, w/ the brine solution you can approach 0F w/ salt and get the advantages of both the full contact/good heat transfer and colder temperature than the melting ice to boot...

--

[clifto]

It drops to -50F?

[clifto]

Depends. How many square inches of contact surface? I bet 100 square inches of 32F water will cool to 35F faster than 3 square inches of -20F ice. Especially so if the ice forms a skin of water between ice and beer can, limiting the interface temperature to 32F.

[clifto]

Or a friend who's really cool.