Frost Proof Sillcock Froze and Split

Page 2 of 3  


Huh? No water available for months? How hard is it to open the inside valve when you want water?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:36:57 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:

That depends on where the shut-off is located. Even if it's in an accessible place in the basement, it usually involves getting a ladder or large stool to stand on to reach the valve. Then you have to remember to repeat the process and turn it off. Not something I'd want to do when the freeze-proof sill cock avoids it all. If it's behind a washing machine, above a finished basement ceiling, etc, then it could be a bigger pain.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Your post reminds me of what I call "panic prose", the type of wording you hear in many infomercials.
You know, watching the nice lady fight with the totally tangled garden hose, getting all frustrated, while the voice-over says "No more wrestling with heavy, tangled hoses that will kink and split and completely ruin your life and the life of your kids." Then there’s the guy that shoves the Q-Tip half way into his brain while the voice-over warns of punctured eardrums.
"...it usually involves a ladder or a large stool..."
Obviously, we would need to poll numerous households to find out where their shutoffs are located to see if you use of the word "usually" fits.
All I can relate is that in my case, the shut offs for all three of my spigots are easily accessible with no climbing apparatus required. The same holds for the shut offs at my dad's house and my sister's house. I do indeed close my shutoffs in the winter and, at least so,far, I don't have any problem remembering to close them again if I open them in the winter.
Regardless of the accessibility of the shutoffs, or the inconvenience of their use, to claim that using a shutoff means "no water available outside for months" is, as I'm sure you know, complete BS.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 11/15/2013 11:12 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I think it's a lot based on personal experience. When I was a kid, the shut offs for the half bath were waaaay up there, over a cellar sink. It was a real challenge to get at them. OTOH, some shut offs are almost as convenient as the device being controlled.
Do I get the free potato dicer thrown in, if I get the ladder and the shut off, both?
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Friday, November 15, 2013 11:27:28 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:

you

ing

your

Q-Tip

s.

You mean it's outside at the sillcock, when you're attaching a hose to wash off something in Jan? If I have to go inside, down into the basement, which is very typical, twice, even if you don't need a ladder to stand on, which I would, to me, that isn't "almost as convenient". With a FP sillcock, you connect the hose and turn it on just like you do in July.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Friday, November 15, 2013 11:12:15 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:

valve

er


u

g

ur

-Tip


me

e

There is no water available unless you go through whatever it takes to turn the water back on, so it's not "regardless of the accessibility or the inconvenience". I think everyone here,except you, understood that. If you want to screw around with shutoff valves, drains, etc instead of using a freeze-proof sillcock and then shut them off in fall, turn them back on in spring, go turn them back on if you want some outside water several times in January, be my guest. IDK about you and where your shutoff valve is located, but my sillcock comes in the basement straight through the wall. You can't reach the plumbing without a ladder. And that assumes you haven't finished off the basement, have shelves or something in the way, etc. I've seen lots of new construction and they are all done that way. They use freeze-proof sillcocks, for obvious reaonson, but if they didn't where they come in is *not* reachable without a ladder or similar.
Maybe you should team up with Nestork, who thinks installing a freeze-proof sillcock half-assed, slanting backwards, followed by a valve and drain is a cool idea.
The simple fact is, freeze-proof sillcocks are widely used, they work and they have major advantages to the manual shutoff approach from 50 years ago. They are installed in most new construction here. I've had them for 30 years and they work. The only time I had one fail is when I left a hose connected and forgot about it. I would not go back to the inferior, manual system.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

My only issue is with your wording, not with your or anyone else's thoughts related to drains, etc. I agree that a drain is unnecessary, so I don't have to team up with nestork or anyone else. I also have no issues or questions related to the quality of freeze-proof sillcocks, their use, their advantages, etc.
The only issue I had was with your words "no water available outside for months". That is what I refer to as "panic prose", meaning words that are used to intimate that the only possible outcome is the worst possible outcome.
Come on, trader...aren't you one of the members of this ng that parses posts and reminds people of what they said? You specifically said "no water available outside for months". Period. Now look back...that is the one and only thing I questioned.
It now appears that you have amended that and added "unless you go through whatever it takes to turn the water back on". That is vastly different than simply saying "no water available outside for months". While a freeze-proof sillcock is certainly more convenient than an internal shutoff, the claim that an internal shutoff results in "no water available outside for months" is simply not true.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Friday, November 15, 2013 12:56:39 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:

e valve

r

mber

d

you

ling

your

e Q-Tip

ms.

s.

same

ave

er.

of

side

ur

n

ts

er

d

h

an

of

s"

So, if I said that after I winterize my lawn sprinkler system, I can't water the lawn for months, that's BS too, right? Because technically I can go turn it back on again, then reverse the whole process. Or once I cover and wrap up a boat for the winter, I can't say that I can no longer get stuff out of it, because if I *really* wanted to, I could go unwrap the thing to go get the wrench I left in the cabin. I'll make sure to keep all possibilities in mind in the future for the pendatic among us.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yes.

Right.

Correct.

...or you could simply not equate the opening of a shutoff with flushing and refilling a sprinkler system or unwrapping and rewrapping a boat.
I'm pretty sure you can see the difference.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Friday, November 15, 2013 1:40:15 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I'm, pretty sure you're now on my list of pedantic idiots. Next time you make some post, the meaning of which is obvious, I'll make sure to rip you apart too based on super strict interpretations. The simple fact is that once people turn off, winterize whatever it is, they usually don't turn it back on because they don't want to go through the inconvenience. And to me, to wash something off outside with a hose, it would be very inconvenient to take a ladder from the gararge, carry it through the house to the basement, get up to turn the valve to the sillcock back on, repeat the process after I'm done, etc. Given the PIA the whole thing is, you typically wouldn't use the freaking outside sillcocks until spring, unless it was absolutely necessary.
For the enlightened, there is a very easy solution. That is a freeze-proof sillcock. You want to do it the way it was done 50 years ago and pretend that is practical, be my guest.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Feel free to make that your life's work.
Have you ever heard the phrase "renting space in your head"? I guess I just moved in.
But please, for the love of God and all that is sacred, stop bringing up frost free sillcocks and ladders and garages and all that other crap. If you've got a problem with me calling you on your use of the phrase "no water available outside for months", that's fine. What is getting so tiring is that you appear to think it's about something else. It's not. Really, it's not. I've actually said that in no uncertain terms in my previous posts.
If it'll make you feel better, I'll install a frigging frost free sillcock so you'll realize it has never, ever been about that.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Saturday, November 16, 2013 4:50:52 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Good grief. Are you losing your mind? The whole thread was about frost-proof sillcocks, but now that's crap and I'm not supposed to bring it up? As for needing a ladder and having to get one from the garage down into the basement to turn the water back on it's not crap. It's the process I'd have to go through to be able to wash off something in Jan if I didn't have frost-proof ones. It's such a PIA, that most people wouldn't do it, unless they really had to. Hence, God forgive me for saying that with a regular sillcock you don't have water outside for months. I figure most folks here have enough brains to know what I meant and that if someone really wanted to turn it back on, of course they could. But perhaps there are some dolts here that think that it's on some time lock, where once it's off, it can't be put back on until April. I'm sure they appreciate your helping them out.
If

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Apparently so. You know that definition of insanity related to trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result? Well, I'm there.
Regardless of how many times I say that I have no issue with the use of frost free sillcocks and that the one and only single solitary item I took issue with was a specific phrase ("no water available outside for months") you still keep harping about sillcocks and ladders.
You even amended your statement about "no water" so somewhere deep down inside you seem to understand that that specific phrase is all I have been talking about. Yet for some reason, you still feel the need to try and convince me that I'm wrong about sillcocks and ladders and people's reluctance to use their shutoff during the winter.
Good grief is right.

There ya go! It sure would have saved a lot of typing if you had just done that sooner.
Now we can finally put this discussion to rest. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sunday, November 17, 2013 12:06:32 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I acknowledged that point in my first reply to you. But you won't accept, nor hear the relevant part, that it's often a PIA to turn the water back on again, just because you want to wash out a garbage can in January. That PIA, in my case would involve getting a ladder from the garage, hauling it through the house to the basement, just to open a valve. THAT is why in most cases once they are shut off, they remain off until spring. That you really could turn the thing back on again if you really wanted to, was obvious to everyone. So, who's the stubborn ass here? I acknowledged your point, the for several posts now, but you keep making posts where you say I can't even talk about sillcocks, ladders, what a PIA it is to go open the re-winterize one just for a bucket of water, etc.
No go fuck yourself. How's that? Is that an acceptable part of the discussion?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Wow! You seem to be spitting and sputtering all over your keyboard. Just how far into your head have I gotten? Starting a Sunday on such an angry note is real shame.
As for your latest suggestion, I think not. Instead, I'm going to spend the day with the woman who did a fine job taking care of that for me last night.
Now, take a deep breath, relax, and enjoy what's left of the weekend.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sunday, November 17, 2013 9:18:58 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I'm spitting and sputtering? Yet here YOU are, replying yet again. Post after post when I acknowledged your point many posts ago. See how I make you dance.
Just

What size sillcock did she use when she did you?

I bet that's what she said.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 02:36:57 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03

And remember to close it again inside, drain it, and leave the outside tap open when you are finished - - - - - -
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 02:36:57 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03

By the way, the "silcock" is the old all-outside shutoff. The "frostproof" is a "hydrant"
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Do a google image search on frost proof hydrant.
Lots of pics of vertical, in-the-ground, devices like this...
http://www.texas-trading.com/images/querschnitt_hydrant_e.jpg
...with a few pics of the through-the-wall devices that we have been discussing in this thread.
Then do an image search on frost proof sillcock.
Nothing but through-the-wall devices.
Maybe it's a regional thing?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 19:42:03 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03

Could be. Up here in Canada (Ontario, anyway) the frostproofs are called hydrants. The non-frostproof are called sillcocks, or simply faucets. A hydrant is considered to be a self draining direct acting remote water valve (dry hydrant)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.