Energy savings of a ' fridge

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That's a totally invalid comparison. If anything, it refutes your argument. Everyone knows that the actual mileage one gets can be somewhat different than the official EPA city/highway ratings on any given car. But the tests are still a useful tool and allow a basic mileage comparison to be made. Or do you think a Ferrari gets about the same mileage as a Honda Civic?

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Of course. What I said was that the *fleet averages* are nonsense, because they don't even include the cars that people want to drive, by calling them SUVs instead of passenger cars and leaving them out of the counting. Like most technical analysis provided by the government, the information is not the plain truth, but what promotes political and commercial expedience.
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My ice cube trays hold 0.796 pounds of water. Freezing one from 60 F takes (60-32+144)0.796 = 137 Btu, ie 0.04 kWh of heat. A fridge with a COP of 3 could move that with 0.013 kWh worth 1.3 cents at 10 cents/kWh. Know anyone who freezes 1/0.013 = 75 ice cube trays per day? :-) The trays have about 4"x10" of ice surface. Over a month, they might lose 1/4" of depth in my frost-free freezer. How much does that cost?

Foil helps, aluminum helps, but
http://www.devicelink.com/mpb/archive/98/09/005.html
says 100 in^2 of "low-density polyethylene" loses about 0.4 grams of water per day per mil (0.001") of thickness at 40 C (104 F), with 0% RH on one side and 35% on the other. A graph shows how this decreases linearly with inverse (1000/T(K)) temperature. How much would that cost?
EERE/DOE say a 6 mil poly film vapor barrier has 0.06 perms, ie 1 ft^2 transmits 0.06 grains of water vapor per hour (out of 7000 grains per pound) with a 1" Hg differential pressure at 73.4 F. How much would that cost?
Nick
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1$ a day! not for a new unit, Get a Kill a watt meter and test one, I bet your local apliance shop would let you, I know I was paying under 5$ a month for a 19.5 cu ft unit.
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ransley writes:

I have actual engineering instrumentation and tests, not that toy.
Typical is $1/day.
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Considering that electric rates can vary from about 5 to 18 a kWh, your $1 figure is as accurate as the refrigerator testing.
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Edwin Pawlowski writes:

Define "accurate". I said $1/day is typical and it is for typical electric pricing. The DOE figures are way off the low end and not typical of anywhere. Their 10 cents/day figures are fantasy.
Where do they charge 5 cents for a KWH? Iraq? Our fuel surchage alone is more than 5 cents.
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Define "typical"

Some places in the Midwest are that cheap. I recently did a check of rates where our competitors did business and found rates as low as .045. I don't have the links at home, but I was shocked at the rates available.
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Like the 1 cent/day Mt. Best chest fridge conversion? :-)
Nick
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snipped-for-privacy@ece.villanova.edu wrote:

Does the above REALLY work as well as they say?
have any real world experience with it?
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I think so. This started when Dr. Chalko (whose day job seems to involve helicopter aerodynamics) noticed that chest freezers used less electricity than fridges, despite their larger inside-outside temperature differences.
Then again, it would be nice if his fridge were larger and upright (for easier access and less floorspace) and had a freezer compartment for ice and ice cream. With just a few door openings, an upright freezer might work well as an ultra-low-power fridge.
USDOE tests freezers at 0 F in a 90 F room to make up for no door openings. The Energy Guide label on Whirlpool's EH151 14.8 ft^3 $369 chest freezer says it uses 354 kWh/year that way, so it might use 354(70-36)/(90-0) = 134 at 36 F, ie 0.37 kWh per day, or an average of 15.3 watts.
The A419ABC-1C digital thermostat from Johnson Controls ($62 as part number L38716 from Jonestone Supply, with a remote thermistor) uses 1.8 VA max. It could run the freezer when the box temp rises to 36 F.
If this is like Frigidaire's FFC1524 48"x29.5"x35" high chest freezer, with cold coils inside the left 29.5"x35" side and hot coils under the skin of the 48"x35" back, we might add an internal foil-foamboard partition parallel to the left side to make a freezer compartment and add more foamboard over the top of the chest lid and around the 3 cold sides and let a new stat run a small fan to circulate air between the freezer and fridge compartments when the fridge temp rises to 36 F.
Nick
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wrote:

Hmm, looking at the EPA energy star data, they use about the same amount of electricity as fridges of comparable size. Which is still impressive, given the larger difference in temperature difference.
Another data point is to compare upright, freezer only, manual defrost units with chest freezers (which are all manual defrost, at least the energy star ones). For 15-17 ft^3, the chest freezers use 350-360 kwh/year. While for 15-18 ft^3, the upright freezers use 409-430 kwh/year. But, I haven't checked the energy star testing procedure to see whether they are opening the doors or not.
There are also commercially available chest refrigerators (e.g. by Summit), but they are much more expensive than a chest freezer conversion. I also couldn't find the usage data on them.
Cheers, Wayne
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That "Toy" as you call the KAW meter has quite a few reviews online stating accuracy is very, very good. I suspect your instrument is off, or your frige on the bum, since my tests, done on several friges conform to my utility bill at $0.13 kwh. Even an old unit I have, came up after a 4 day test at around $11 a month. If yours is really 1$ a day at near 0.13-$0.16 kwh then something, or a few things are wrong, Like your defrost timer is locked on defrost sucking an easy extra 600watts all the time, or freon is low so it never shuts off. $5 a month is an accurate figure a new 19.5 cu ft top freezer uses. I had a unit stuck on defrost from a broken clock, it took an extra 5-600 watts, those months we wasted maybe 50$ a month.
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Lets see, as the piss ignorant naysayers say, Tankless water heaters save no money, condensing heat units are bs, CFLs you cant live with, and refrigerators cost $30 dollars a month at $.014 or so kwh, I say Bull shit, my tenants pay US$ 20 - 25 a month for electric for a one bedroom apt, with a 19.5 cu ft new HD Maytag frige and computer and TV games, I pay about US$ 35 for a house with an OLD FRIGE, , thats all, folks, in Chgo, and at a fairly high kwh cost of about $0.14kwh. What a bunch of whineing, dumb ass, weeenies you are on how to save bucks, morons, more like it. Talk about idiots that cant see through the clouds. My Neighbor, same size house, paid 700 a month to heat, I paid about 120, but he is too much of a moron to figure it out also, just like a few of the folks here. Refrigerators on the mainland, cant cost $30 a month, unless 15 kids keep em open all day. Piss it away, its only to the utility company, Bushes favorite personal investment.
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ransley writes:

You claim $11 per month, so that's 11/0.13 = 84 KWH over 30*24 hours, which would as an always-on average load rate to just over 100 watts. A big refrigerator does not average 100 watts. It's more like 300 watts when it runs, and typical duty cycles with an icemaker are mostly running.
And don't forget my little gem of wisdom that your indoor refrigeration cost is twice as bad as your refrigerator electric cost when you are air conditioning, because you're pumping that heat twice, not once. Once from the refrigerator into the kitchen for $1/day, and again from the kitchen to outdoors for $1.25/day. So the accuracy of your outlet meter is not really the point, because it doesn't measure the true marginal cost of the refrigeration per BTU. This is one of the huge holes in the Energy Star claims.
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I just talked to 2 of my tenants, they said they pay about 20 a month, thats for tv, microwave, lights, video games, computer, FRIGE, TVs, phones etc, at Chicago ill rates of near 0.14 kwh , so go figure, your mythical 1$ a day is from a bad frige or inacurate monitoring, show me a poor review on the Kill-A- Watt meter and its innacuracies, your monitoring of your frige is suspect, Gee I run a house at 39$ a month. Yours must be near 100 with 50$ pissed away in the trash. wake up and do your own audit old fart.
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ransley writes:

So you run a house on 300 watts average.
Pardon my skepticism.
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Thats the problem you dont believe anything, I dont have any tenants paying over 20 a month with new friges unless they run space heaters. Read test reviews on a Kill a Watt and get one. If your frige costs 30 a month it should be junked.
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I don't see that as a huge hole. I want a comparison of the appliance uses, not how my life is or is not affected by secondary functions. In my case, I only run the AC about 30 days a year, but if I lived in the south it may be 180+ days. Some of my neighbors have no AC, others have central units. it is impossible to give total energy use for every household in the country.
That tag though, does give me some idea that A is better than B. Perfect? No, that is why it is called an energy GUIDE, not an energy absolute use sticker.
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Edwin Pawlowski writes:

Exactly: it gives you that idea. An untested, unproven idea that plausibly could be the inverse of the truth.
The function of the tag is to sell refrigerators and provide cover for the government. No doors, no contents, no ice. A schoolboy doing a science fair project would come up with a better test.
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