Electrical/Generator question

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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (HA HA Budys Here) wrote:

I've heard it referred to as a "widowmaker" cord.
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That's called a "suicide cord" rig. It's physically possible, but highly risky. One of the many risks is leaving the mains on for the house, and frying a lineman down the street. I'd reccomend against it.
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Christopher A. Young
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There has been, in the past, much discussion on this topic. However, I really wonder what would happen if you connect a 4KW generator to the dead grid. My guess, and it's only a theory, is that the generator would stall out due to all the other loads on the line. Just the loads on your side of the transformer could probably kill a small generator. I have almost killed my generator during a power failure, by just turning on a large heater along with all the other loads.
Ready .... discuss.
Stormin Mormon wrote:

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Art Todesco wrote:

Please read http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/90pr05.html There are at least two more that have been documented by OSHA FACE reports. The answer depends a great deal on the nature of the damage to the outside lines and the nature of the connected loads. Please keep in mind that it takes a tenth of an amp to cause ventricular fibrillation which is invariably fatal unless a defibrillator is applied within minutes.
I am just one of the nations fire and rescue personnel and I have responded to an incident of a utility worker injured by a generator back feed. The risk is real even though that has nothing to do with the OP's original question. -- Tom H
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Many gennies have circuit breakers for this situation. I doubt a 4 KW would power the grid (down to a lineman) without tripping off the breaker. But why take chances?
And as a courtesy to all who consider this a heated and passionate topic "YOUR A TOTAL IDIYOT!!!!!" hoping you feel better, now.
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Christopher A. Young
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Indeed.
Let's say you're the only person fed off a particular 4K_volt_ pole pig, and an ice storm has pulled the supply wire off.
You've inadequately set up your generator, and the generator is back feeding the pole pig. The input side of the pole pig is now presenting 4K _volts_ to an unsuspecting lineman. But that's the dead side, right? Wrong. _Both_ ends of the break are live.
Expecting a 40 _amp_ breaker to trip fast enough (or at all) to save someone's life? Not a chance.
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Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
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How did you get from watts to volts?
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Christopher A. Young
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Watts = volts * amps. (simple case, no power factor).
4000 watts = 20 amps at 200 volts or 4000 watts = 2 amps at 2000 volts. or 4000 watts = 1 amp at 4000 volts or 4000 watts = .1 amp (lethal) at 40,000 volts.
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John Hines wrote:

i.e,
Volts = Watts / Amps Amps = Watts / Volts
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

snipped-for-privacy@XXXXcarolina.rr.com
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In all the time I've worked on electric, it's always been about 110 volts to ground, unless there is a transformer or a resistor. Now, supposing I put a 110 volt generator on a house and back feed. It's still going to go through the wall at 110 volts. Not 4,000 volts.
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Christopher A. Young
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Oh my God, if you've worked on electric for ten years and don't know anything but 110V, it must have been one experiencei n ten years, or you are a liar. I think you're a trolling liar. If you lie about this, what else would you live about? Like most everything that spews from your gutters to your keyboard?
You're an idiot and a moron and show it well here.
message | | |
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So, if I stick a fork in the end of my generator, you are telling me I can get 4,000 volts? I don't think so!
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Christopher A. Young
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Idiot: No one said that. Stupid, learn to read. Moron, you need more skoolin'.
message wrote: | | >How did you get from watts to volts? | | Watts = volts * amps. (simple case, no power factor). | | 4000 watts = 20 amps at 200 volts | or | 4000 watts = 2 amps at 2000 volts. | or | 4000 watts = 1 amp at 4000 volts | or | 4000 watts = .1 amp (lethal) at 40,000 volts. | |
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The discussion is about reverse feeding the transformer on the pole.
If you connect your generator to a transformer you can have any voltage you want.
Learn some basics my friend, as you look like a stupid, ignorant, fool.
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The discussion was about reverse feeding power through your circuit panel box and out onto the grid. You're the first person to mention a transformer.
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Christopher A. Young
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That is because the rest of us know how the grid works.
The grid doesn't run at 220V like your house does. There is a transformer (aka pole pig) for every half dozen houses or so.
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Or even per house, as it is out here in the sticks where we live. Some houses around here have 200' + of wire from the xfmr to the residence. They want thousands to move/install a pole, but then they'll giv out the lousy service of long feed lines to the houses, cause YOU bear that cost, so best case, you get to put it underground. Go figure.
Hey, don't forget, maroon here has been working with 'lectrisitie for ten plus years! HE knows thar ain't really no transformers in this here stuff; them's toys, not fer lectitical stuff.
Pop
wrote: | | >The discussion was about reverse feeding power through your circuit panel | >box and out onto the grid. You're the first person to mention a transformer. | | That is because the rest of us know how the grid works. | | The grid doesn't run at 220V like your house does. There is a | transformer (aka pole pig) for every half dozen houses or so.
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For the n'th time:
There's a transformer between you and the grid - the "pole pig". The input voltage on it is at least 4Kv, the output 240V (well, actually, split for 2x 120v). If you backfeed your panel box, the input and output of the polepig are reversed. The input, from your generator, is 240V. The output (the grid side) is 4Kv.
If the power plant is _still_ feeding the polepig, sparks fly and things go kablam.
If the power plant isn't feeding the polepig, but there's still significant grid connected to the pole pig, you're trying to feed your neighbors. Probably no kablam, but a generator that certainly doesn't work right.
If the polepig hot wire _broke_ (why you had the generator there), that means that the severed end of the pole pig wire dangling on the ground is at 4Kv. A wonderful thing for kiddies to run into. Or linesmen being surprised with when they're trying to do you a favour and reconnect you.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
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On 22 Nov 2004 18:12:16 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@nortelnetworks.com (Chris Lewis) wrote:

Exactly so. A transformer transforms in both directions. If you supply 4KV to the primary, you get 240V at the secondary. If you supply 240V at the secondary, you get 4KV at the primary. If the lineman isn't expecting it, it could kill him.
Gary R. Lloyd CMS HVACR Troubleshooting Books/Software http://www.techmethod.com
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It is certainly possible that you can back feed a transforner on the grid and kill a lineman, not following his procedures. I doubt it is likely tho. When your tiny little generator hits that immovable object (your neighbor's loads) it will trip. The reality is, if you do kill someone, it is more likely to be your neighbor who is as electrically dumb as you are and is trying to jury rig something himself when your generator comes online. If your lineman does find power coming into the grid from your house, expect to be on generator long after your neighbors have their power back. Your service drop will be laying in the yard and your request for service will probably be "lost in the system" for a while.
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