Door sizes

[Don Y]

You're missing the point.

It doesn't matter whether I'm looking to replace just the slab (reusing existing frame) *or* replacing the entire frame (with a prehung unit) -- if the RO is sized too narrow!

The remedy available to me is to replace/revise the buck; or, fabricate a thinner jamb (assuming that to be a cheaper solution than a custom 35.5" metal door).

I'm not keen on letting this turn into another long-winded back-and-forth where we play 20 questions and roam around visiting all sorts of different issues that MAY or MAY NOT be pertinent.

"A stock 36 inches door is 36 inches -- whether a slab or (effectively) when prepackaged in a prehung jamb"

That's all I need to know to sort out what I have to do...

[Paintedcow]

Modern doors are always about 1/2" narrower than their listed size. There has to be some gap around the door, and that 1/2" is your gap. The INSIDE of the frame is the listed size (32" 34" 36", etc).

If you're replacing an entire door and frame, you need the OUTSIDE measurements of the frame, an you make your rough opening about 3/4" larger, so you can align the frame and apply the shims.

Some OLD doors were the actual listed size, but not always.... (Of course back then, the frames had to be 1/2" bigger than the listed door size).

[Don Y]

Hiring it out will get pricey. The buck will have to be replaced (to use a COTS door) *or*, a custom door ordered, *or* a custom jamb, etc.

In either case, we're looking at a fair bit of labor (time) and folks tend not to like to work for free (or, for the sale of the door)

I'd originally considered just replacing with a prehung -- to eliminate all the "fitting". But, the RO isn't wide enough to "simply" do so.

The next alternative was to leave the frame in place and swap the slab out. This would require drilling the door to fit MY frame (so, I don't save much on labor -- except I no longer have to remove the frame!)

But, the 35.5" confounds on that score -- unless I start inspecting individual prehung offerings hoping to find a 35.5" door that I can REMOVE from its frame and coerce into *my* frame! Then, I've got a

35.5" door drilled for *it's* prehung frame that I have to HOPE I can fit to my EXISTING frame.

(too many things have to fall into place for this to be a joyous outcome)

[dpb]

On 03/01/2016 9:44 AM, Don Y wrote: ...

Excepting it already has in large part owing to your reluctance to outline the actual objective and specifics of the condition.

We've already established that nominal 36" doors aren't necessarily either 36" _or_ 35.5" and that you can undoubtedly find either. That still leaves open all the other dimensions and details that are just as important as far as what would have to be done to make a swap.

I'd think the likelihood the RO is too narrow pretty low but it is possible, yes. Have you done enough exploratory work to know what the RO dimensions actually are? You may be making mountains from molehills and the simplest solution is to simply rip out the old and put in a new prehung stock unit.

[dpb]

On 03/01/2016 9:52 AM, Don Y wrote: ...

Ah, we're finally getting down to cases...have you actually determined the RO dimensions and if so, what are they?

[Don Y]

I can trace the grout lines to know how large the opening in the

*masonry* is. I can see where the door "begins". I can do simple math to determine how wide the buck+frame are.

I can then examine the "assembled dimensions" of prehung doors to see how they would fit.

Ripping out the old leaves me with a large, person sized hole in the house that needs to be filled before the next nightfall. I'm sure as hell not keen on doing that just to "gather data".

I'm an engineer; I can look at numbers on a piece of paper and sort out how things will (or won't!) work without having to "try it and see!"

[Don Y]

Hey, I'm out of here. As I said upthread, I have no desire to play data collection grunt for armchair, remote "pondering" as to how I should proceed.

Thanks for your time but the question asked has been answered. I can now look at ALL of my options and sort out how best for me to proceed without "try this" sort of advice.

[No, I don't care to explain all the OTHER options that I have so someone else can comment on how appropriate they may or may not be.]

Sorry, I don't mean to be "short" and I appreciate the comments -- from all. But, these things tend to drag on BEYOND what is necessary (at least what's necessary for *me* to sort out how to proceed).

[DerbyDad03]

Now you've done it! You've asked for pertinent information when he has explicitly stated that he does not want to answer any questions not directly related to nominal vs. actual width of door slabs.

Are you trying to start a fight or something? ;-)

[TimR]

Another complication: we lived in Europe for a while courtesy of (er, at the order of) my employer at the time.

Those German doors did not just swing into the jamb. They overlapped. Twice. There was a double jog in the jamb and a double overlap on the door.

Wish I could get one like that here.

[gfretwell]

The easiest way to determine a masonry R/O is to drill a small hole in the jamb near the stop and probe with a wire. You can easily fill that hole and make it disappear if you decide not to replace the jambs. You might find there is quite a bit of bucking in that opening.

[dpb]

On 03/01/2016 10:50 AM, [e-mail] wrote: ...

+42

Nobody said rip the whole thing out; it's unlikely to the max the RO wasn't plenty for a "standard" door and guessing from the exterior fill isn't much for uncovering what is actually there.

Sometimes even we engineers need to do lab work, not count of design drawings... :)

[trader_4]

I'd just pull the trim molding off to see the RO. Assuming he's replacing the door, it has to come off anyhow. But then again, the scope of the actual project hasn't been stated. It's almost certainly a RO where you can find a replacement door to fit, there are probably a lot of choices.

[trader_4]

+1

[dpb]

Yeah, me too. The hole thru the jamb isn't all that reliable in that you'll hit whatever blocking is there and not know for certain whether it's fill or actual framing...I was simply pointing out to OP that the best answer isn't necessarily the answer to the question asked and likely isn't going to come from analysis/documentation but experiment/observation instead.

Of course, if he were to simply take existing slab measurements including those of other specifics outlined and went with those to the local purveyor of goods... :)

[Jessica Hefford]

replying to Don Y, Jessica Hefford wrote: The opening (without door box) is 35.5". What size door/door box should be installed?

[Unquestionably Confused]

If you didn't bother to read through almost two years of discussion, try this: "Typically the rough opening required when installing a prehung door should be sized 2 inches wider and 2 inches higher than the prehung door itself. For example a two-foot, eight inch (32?) by six feet, eight inch high (80?) prehung door, would require a rough opening width of 34 inches and a height of 82 inches."

Your opening is too big for a 32" and too small for a 36". If it's plumb, you can most likely slip in a 34" prehung door even though the RO is a shade skimpy.

[William Walsh]

replying to Don Y, William Walsh wrote: option 2--house is 100 years old