I agree that he is *talking* about the panel itself, but the question is: "What does he want to buy/replace?"
Who knows what his RO is like. For all we/he knows, the current door is simply what was put in but maybe not the optimal solution for his RO. He even hinted at that in is OP. Or maybe there is something weird regarding his current jamb or installation such that knowing only the panel measurement may not be all that is needed.
If the goal is to buy a pre-hung door, then the RO measurement is the place to start, not wasting time determining if a 36" door is actually 35.5".
Take the RO measurements to the dealer, along with anything else specific to his exact situation and find out what door is the best choice. As so many people like to say in this group, it's not rocket science.
I venture none of the above...as another noted, doors are spec'ed by RO and nominal dimensions; the various manufacturers have always had slightly different precise measurements on prehung units.
I suspect if you'll measure you'll find the finished opening into which the door fits is precisely 3-0 or whatever the nominal is and the door slab itself is undersized to match the particular weather-stripping system in use.
Built-in-place door frames and jambs generally will have a full-size door slab and the opening will then be somewhat larger than nominal to fit.
Tract housing, even more "up-scale" than just starters 40-50 years ago likely was using prehungs rather than custom-built even then although if there's a significant time between the two and the earlier is '50s or so, chances go up on custom framing.
You seem to be giving information out about what you want to know, and why, in increments.
Your original post was,
"Exterior door measures 35.5" wide. I assume this is a nominal 36" door? Or, a bastard size acquired by developer when the home was built?"
But later posts seem to indicate that you want to replace your existing door. And, I think you may have also mentioned that you want a metal door for the replacement.
I mention this because if there is something specific that you want to do, it may help to state that. But, if your question is just the curiosity question that you originally posted (and you are not asking because you want to replace your existing door), then the responses and answers would be different.
When I have investigated the possibility of replacing an exterior door in two different older homes, I encountered some of the same issues that you are encountering. In both of my situations, I thought the doors were
36-inch doors. Basically, when I measured the opening for each door, I came up with a 36-inch opening. But, when I measured the actual width of the existing doors, they came up as less than 36 inches wide -- around 35 1/2 or
35 3/4 wide.
Then, when I went to look at doors for sale (just the door slabs themselves -- not prehung doors with the frame included), I kept coming up with doors that were 36 inches wide. That meant that if I bought a new wooden door, it would be 36 inches wide and I probably would have to trim it slightly to make it fit in the existing door frame opening. If I bought a metal door, it would be a problem because trimming 1/4 inch off of the width of a metal door would not be a viable option (I don't even know if it is doable at all).
So, that means that my two options are to:
1) buy a 36 inch wooden door and trim it slightly to fit the existing opening; or,
2) buy a prehung metal door and replace the existing door and frame entirely (which meant more work, dealing with the having to remove the existing trim and frame around the original door etc).
I think that means that the answer to your original question is that, yes, nominal 36 inch exterior doors on older homes were often only nominally 36 inches and were in reality about 35 1/2 or 35 3/4 inches wide to fit into a
36 inch wide opening.
Meanwhile, one of my possible exterior door replacements would have involved a door that is 84 inches high -- not the typical 80 inch high doors that they make now. That would have meant ordering a custom size door. And, since I would be ordering a custom size metal door anyway, I thought that may mean that I could order a custom metal door that was 35 3/4 inches wide and 79 3/4 inches high to fit the existing opening. I never did check to see if I could order a special size metal door with those exact dimensions -- partly because I didn't have the heart to buy a metal door that I only hoped would fit the existing opening correctly.
In the end, I wound up not replacing either door -- at least not yet. I repaired one existing door and I just left the other one (the 84 inch high door) as is and didn't replace it.
Those were my experiencing with this issue in case it helps.
Thank you for joining the RO discussion. I'm not sure why that isn't the
*only* thing being discussed. Trying to find a slab to just drop into an existing jamb may end up being more work than just buying a pre-hung door, with modern weather stripping, etc. At a minimum the options for a slab that fits are going to be more limited than the vast selection of per-hungs.
You can, yes. You'll possibly not like the pricing options that go with non-nominal dimensions.
I was lucky in TN that there was a local manufacturer in Knoxville who did the job for me for what I thought was quite reasonable -- replacing a wood slab in basement block wall with 4" veneer field stone outside that...
84" is a standard height so you're not as far out in left field as you might think but if you were to try to fit the door in existing opening you've got more than just the actual width/height to deal with--you've got the number, size and location of hinges, height/setback of the lockset, whether there is/isn't additional deadbolt, etc., etc., etc., ...
Miss any one of those details and you're possibly hosed...or at least have customizing to deal with.
Because this is EXACTLY what I want to know. I've learned that providing context just invites endless questions that avoid the question being asked (Why do you want to do that? Why do you want to do it THAT way? Why are you obsessing over some trivial issue? Why is this explanation so LONG?? etc.)
I asked the question in much the same way someone ignorant of dimensional lumber standards might ask, "Why are my 2x4's 1.5x3.5?"
Had someone said "Two by four are NOMINAL dimensions -- just like 36 inches is a NOMINAL door dimension", I then would have known that I just need to buy a 36" door and it WILL fit in place of the 35.5" door that I have.
See above. That would inevitably have invited:
- what form of home construction
- interior or exterior
- why do you want steel instead of wood or fiberglass?
- will you need to cut a pet door *through* the door?
- why not install a WINDOW instead?
Reducing the question to one of "is a 35.5 inch door ACTUALLY what is advertised as a 36 inch door" eliminates all of that discussion.
Exactly. And, I've taken the initiative to not ASSUME that my "sample of one" was representative of ALL such doors -- by walking to neighbor's house and measuring their door (knowing that their house is constructed differently, different door size, etc.). I.e., if THEIR's is also "half an inch undersized", it starts suggesting that this is a question of nominal dimensions being used in place of exact dimensions.
(e.g., people will freely mix discussions of 2x4's (nominal sizes) with
32" and 36" doors -- who's to say the 32/36 isn't also a nominal dimension?)
Exactly.
The same sorts of problems apply to prehung doors as well -- except now you have to contend with the frame, brickmold, etc.
Those are my choices, as well (restricting the discussion to JUST the door -- lest folks want to comment on other unrelated issues that I am not asking about!)
?? 79.75 for an 84 inch door?
The costs of custom -- for a door that is NEVER USED -- are just silly! So, if doors actually ARE 36 inches, then I have to plan on making the opening fit the door.
If I'm going to do THAT, then there are other options that I can bring to bear on the problem that I wouldn't have exercised if I could just install a "drop-in replacement".
Thanks, it basically confirms what I'd feared. Silly to talk to the millworks folks about it as they'll just offer to sell me a custom door.
We've had top go that route with some of our larger windows. While painful, if you're already spending a kilobuck on a window, it's not as distressing to have to spend a bit more to get what you truly want!
[OTOH, a generic $100 steel door doesn't want to turn into a $500 special order with 6 week delivery times, shipping charges, etc.]
Short answer seems to be, take a tape with you and measure the doors. Since we started here I have been measuring all the doors I see and the answer I come up with is there is no standard. I have anything from "right on" to a 1/2" smaller and one that is about 1/4" smaller (steel door so I know it wasn't modified). My guess is that manufactures make doors for standard rough openings and the thickness they choose for the jam determines the actual door size. I am curious how building inspectors deal with clear opening sizes for accessible routes since even a full size door is smaller because of the stops.
That is disheartening. It means having to physically visit each "candidate door" and examine it. Anything "shipped to home" (instead of "pick up at store") is not a viable candidate.
(for PREHUNG doors)
I expect lots of variation on *interior* doors. But, I figured exterior door would have far less wiggle room!
You know, stock doors are designed to be installed in standard rough openings. The rough opening is just that. Rough. The installer will measure the door (and if pre-hung, the jamb) and shim and jamb out the rough opening appropriately for the door.
Occasionally, the rough opening is not large enough for a stock door - in which case either a custom door is ordered ($$$) or a stock door is cut down (taking care that the lock stile width and the hinge stile width remain visually consistent and wide enough to mount the lockset).
It's not that difficult a concept, really.
My rough opening is about 64 inches, with shims and jambs the finished (jamb to jamb) opening is 60 inches for a double door, which makes each door approximately 30 inches wide (absent the bevel on the lock stile).
Fit your door to the rough opening, moving the jambs as necessary if you're only 1/2" off.
Nope as I told you some several responses above...they build to a RO and the final interior opening turns out to be what it is--the two of -1/2" and -1/4" are pretty common for width but the length (height) is also dependent upon those factors plus how they design the threshold.
If you're trying to order a door slab to fit an existing opening, see above as well, there's a whole lot more besides just the exterior dimensions to worry about, especially if you're talking steel, not wood, where field modification is much more of a trick...particularly things like number, size, placement and setback of hinges, hole locations, etc, etc., etc., ...
If you are actually considering a new door the best idea is to have the place that you intend to purchase the door have their guy come out and measure. Most will charge for this but if you make the door purchase with them they will deduct that charge from the purchase price and order (or take from stock if you are lucky) a door to suit your needs. A mistake in measurement by you *will* be expensive. If they make a measuring mistake then the onus on them.
If you just want to take a flyer and 'do-it-yourself' then also consider door height, left or right swing, hinge size and location and boring the door for lockset and dead bolt yourself or having that done for you.
My guess is if he can figure out the original manufacturer he can just order the direct replacement. I'd start by looking at Stanley since they are the biggest.
Because the contention they're _all_ "nominal less half" is simply not so...some prehungs are less-quarter and it's certainly possible to buy and find full-width door slabs which will have finished openings "nominal plus" clearance rather than the door being smaller.
The "less-half" varietal is probably the most common of new units available now, but it isn't unique and certainly wasn't in the past, either.
I'm thinking he's trying to replace wood w/ steel just reading sorta' between the multiple responses and inferring...and was hoping to just hang a slab in place.
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