Do I really need 200 A main service?

[Bob Villa]

That would be "than"...signifies "degree" or "comparison". JFYI

[aemeijers]

I'd like to own a RWD V-8 again before they outlaw them.... Sadly, other than maybe in a used beater pickup (which I don't have anyplace to park, and can't justify the dollars for the 3 times a year I NEED a pickup), they are already out of my price range. :^(

Probably best that I ain't rich. Gas prices are doing the 3 steps forward, 2 steps back routine around here for the last few months, and just passed north of 3 bucks a gallon again. I hope we don't get north of 4 bucks a gallon again anytime soon, but I am not optimistic.

[RBM]

public would buy it. That currently isn't the case. I also think that if GM believed that they had a "winner", they wouldn't have to come up with a secret, convoluted formula for figuring MPG's @ 230

[gfretwell]

I assume he means "owner/builder" permit that allows the homeowner to pull a permit and do the work. YMMV on whether you can actually do this. In Florida you can.

The real break point would be to ask the utility what the rating is on their drop from the pole. If it is a triplex, I bet they say 200a, even though it is ~2ga aluminum. At that point it is replacing the SE from the panel to the service point and swapping out the panelboard if you stay in the same brand/model class. I think Cuttler Hammer even makes panelboards that fit in SqD cans. 150 and 200 usually use the same can. The advantage of using the same brand is you keep your old breakers. You are just replacing the bus bars and main breaker. He may also be replacing the ground electrode conductor.

It is more complicated if he wants to increase the breaker count. You need a new enclosure and you will be rewiring everything.

BTW it might be worthwhile reading the panel label. Some 150s may have

200a busses but I bet the 200 breaker is about the same as a panelboard or maybe even the whole load center.

[RBM]

That's not legal in my county, in fact I'm pretty sure there is a jail term for doing that, although the jail term may only be for doing electrical work in someone else's house. I could look at the laws, but they're really scary. I can't believe that half the stuff in them is constitutional. Hard to believe that you can't legally work in your own house.

[RBM]

That would be "than"...signifies "degree" or "comparison". JFYI

LOL, you should see what it looked like before I hit the spell check

[rlz]

..

With the OP's question, I got curious on what is actually involved in upgrading from 150 to 200A. I looked at my bmain breaker and it had a

200 main breaker inside. Is the upgrade just changing the main breaker or doe the entire panel uually have to be upgraded?

RE: the electriv vehicle comments, I have a 5.9L v-8 in a 1500 Dodge Ram to haul loads of construction and landscaping material. I just can't imagine a electric vehicle that will handle that unless I haul miles of extension cables.

Rob

[ls02]

Five people live in house: two adults and three kids. New A/C will air condition new addition plus part of the existing house. I cannot speak of peak demand. I also at least in theory should consider that both A/ C and the sauna or steam generator may run together at a time. One thing I can speak for sure: although workshop sub-panel is rated for

50 A the only person who uses it is me and I run max two tools at a time rarely exeeding 20 A together.

[ls02]

Not for my budget. I am doing most of the work myself and spending ~ $1500 on something I may not need makes a big diference for me.

[Vic Smith]

the car could be built,sold,

make a profit,

isn't the case.

to come up with a

1. You don't need 95% market share of anything to succeed.
2. Yes, the product has to be solid.
3. Yes, the Volt is being subsidized, as was the Toyota Prius and all the high efficiency furnaces they're talking about in another thread.
4. GM is making a profit.
5. The EPA determines MPG figures, not GM. And it's not 230 MPG.

So you're batting .400. In baseball they'd call you Ted Williams and you'd be a hero. With most work it just gets your ass fired.

--Vic

[Vic Smith]

Good for you. I can't imagine owning your Ram. Just shows neither of us have any imagination. BTW, I hauled tons of material in my Ford pickup with a 352.. Later I hauled even more tons of material in a Chevy Corsica with a little 2.2. In the trunk, back seat and tied to a roof rack. No good for furniture and appliances though. Those I usually got with free delivery or paid 50 bucks. Nobody says you have to buy an electric vehicle and nobody can tell me to buy a Ram. Different strokes. I love America! BTW, here's something to get your imagination going. Probably pie in the sky but who knows?

--Vic

[hallerb]

y, and the car could be built,sold,

ny could make a profit,

urrently isn't the case.

't have to come up with a

anything that cuts our importing of crude oil, espically from the mid east is a good thing.....

our mucking about in those countries business over oil is largely why terrorism exists.....

just look at wiki leaks, and what our country has been up to

[hallerb]

when gasoline gets over 4 bucks what remains of our economy will collapse.

high oil prices had a big part in our collapse

[gfretwell]

I was pretty serious about an electric car since I thought I was the perfect candidate. I don't drive far but I drive everyday. I also have a truck and my wife has a "trip car". Unfortunately I still could not get the numbers to work out, even for a $10k kit conversion on my old Honda. The biggest unrecognized problem is replacing the batteries every 3-4 years ($1300-$1500). I was looking at a 10-12 year payback and not really getting much better in the out years, if the power was free. I didn't drive far enough. If you start with $10k, add 2 sets of batteries over 10 years and assume $3 gas against a car that gets 28 MPG (my Honda) your kit and batteries will buy gas for 33 miles a day, 365 days a year for 10 years. I will still get an electric bill on top of that. If you say 10 kwh (about 60% of 14 golf cart batteries) that is about $1.40 a day assuming no losses in the charger and 100% transfer of power in the car. I suppose the goldilocks situation is a commuter who has a 15-20 mile commute and does not need heat or A/C. Nobody has said what the range is with the heater on or running an A/C.

[RBM]

With the OP's question, I got curious on what is actually involved in upgrading from 150 to 200A. I looked at my bmain breaker and it had a

200 main breaker inside. Is the upgrade just changing the main breaker or doe the entire panel uually have to be upgraded?

To upgrade the service , it requires replacing the panel, cable feeding the panel from the utility company connection, and replacing the grounding system

RE: the electriv vehicle comments, I have a 5.9L v-8 in a 1500 Dodge Ram to haul loads of construction and landscaping material. I just can't imagine a electric vehicle that will handle that unless I haul miles of extension cables.

Rob

[RBM]

[Vic Smith]

None of your battery costs apply to cars like the Prius or Volt. The Volt battery warranty is 8 years/100,000 miles. Prius is similar. Battery failures on the Prius is not related to the golf cart "conversion" batteries you are talking about. Same will hold true of the Volt. Here's something about hybrid failure rates.

was waiting for the Prius dead battery disaster to hit the fan. Still hasn't happened. For now "bleeding-edge" folks with bucks will hopefully get the electric/electric plug-in hybrid car industry in motion. Along with the usual government suspects. This should lower costs as economy of scale begin to do their work. Lower car cost and lower battery cost. But what will put it over the top is +$5.00 a gallon gasoline. And that is coming sure as the sun will rise and set. The n*****ts running the show should get their butts in gear ramping up nuke power, which is the only way to make electric work well.

--Vic

[RBM]

If Toyota only made the Prius, they'd be out of business It's way too early to know if GM is really making a profit. The EPA hasn't yet figured out how they're going to figure MPG's for this type of vehicle, so all kinds of numbers are being used currently

[RBM]

Here is one of the many articles regarding GM's claim of 230 MPG:

[Vic Smith]

Yep, I heard they were taking a big loss on each initially. Don't know if that's still true. And reports say that GM is only making $1000 per Volt.

I'm only going by press reports. I don't trust them either.

EPA pegged the Volt at 60 MPG. I think gas powered it gets about 35 MPG. If your driving allows you to run all electric, then you can figure your "MPG" by converting charging costs to gasoline cost. We'll be hearing a lot about it in the next few years.

--Vic