Backup Generators 101?

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S. Barker wrote:

and more of it is available when the crude is processed. The only time #1 is used is when the tank and lines are outside and above ground because paraffin crystals will form in really cold weather and block the line.
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Negative ghost rider.
s

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S. Barker wrote:

statement including the part you conveniently clipped off is quite accurate.
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I've lived here all my life in upstate NY. It's usually #1 fuel oil UNLESS the tank is in a semi-heated area inside the building (basement, whatever). If the lines are outside, exposed to the extreme cold, #2 fuel oil will flow slower and plug filters much faster. In extreme sub-zero temps are are common in the northeast #2 will often have flow problems thru the filters at the tanks and in the tank screens on the takeup pipes. Also, if the runs are long and along freezing outside walls all it takes is an insulation opening to allow the fuel oil to get gummy in the pipe. There is an incredible amount of misinformation and opinion sans fact in this thread. It's amazing.
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TWayne wrote:

That would make some sense. In the northeast houses generally have basements and the 275-300 gal tanks in the basement are the norm, therefore no cold oil issues. In the midwest where the other poster noted everything was #1 basements would be less common and outdoor tanks more common. Also in the midwest there is probably a lingering history from kero powered farm tractors involved.

Yes, some people seem to be oblivious to the fact that #2 *is* the grade of fuel and whether it's followed by "fuel oil" or "diesel" it's still the same grade of fuel. The difference is taxes, and so a very small extend additives for the on-road diesel in colder climates.
Diesel generators normally run on #2 fuel. In some cases where a large quantity of fuel is stored, #1 is used since it stores a bit better. In the very unlikely case your heating fuel delivery tickets just say "fuel oil" without mentioning the #2 or #1 grade, then you need to check what it is, since there are lower grades (higher numbers) that are usually only used in large commercial boilers in large buildings.
Again, as I noted originally, find the local Generac/Guardian, Onan or Kohler dealer, tell them you need a small diesel standby generator package and let them provide you with the relevant details for the equipment they can provide.
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Last time I lived in an oil-heated home, the driver of the fuel delivery truck told me that #1 was kerosene and #2 is one step heavier, and that most home oil furnaces work fine on both but usually get #2 due to #2 being cheaper.
The usual jet fuel (Jet-A) ia a minor modification of kerosene. I even sometimes smell a distinct kerosene scent around jet engines that have been running only a couple minutes - and I have had experience at small airports barely big enough to accomodate small jet airplanes, where I get to go around outdoors around aircraft. Military jet aircraft use slightly different fuels that are minor modifications of kerosene or kerosene mixes.
I would think that jet fuel usage would bid up the price of #1 compared to #2.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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Don Klipstein wrote: ...

Very sage advice...

Not to mention engine diesel has lubricity additives, detergents, and other additives necessary for long term performance and reliability of diesel engines.
Even if you don't personally care, beginning this year (unless delayed which I don't believe it has been) low sulfur is mandated for small off-road diesel engines as well as "road" diesel. This will be phased into eventually covering all diesel engines.
--
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dpb wrote:

Paranoid advice...

A home standby generator is going to log ~100 hours a year typically. Factors that affect on road engines that log tens of thousands of hours don't apply.

It will also end up in home heating oil tanks as well.
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Pete C. wrote: ...

They _do_ apply...
Or, another way to look at it...you would recommend spending $10K or so on a fixed/autostart genset and then try to save a few nickels using whatever you can find as fuel...
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dpb wrote:

Yes, because despite all the babble to the contrary, #2 fuel oil is #2 fuel oil regardless of any added dye or taxes.
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Pete C. wrote:

Right, #2 fuel oil is #2 fuel oil but it isn't diesel by any current practice.
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ACTUALLY, they are the same.
s

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S. Barker wrote:

temperatures there are three discrete #2 weight products available that are totally different. #2 heating oil, NRLM and ULSD. You can verify this by calling your local liquid fuels terminal and asking. You can also talk with with my buddy who just spent a lot of money buying dedicated tank trucks just to handle the ULSD.
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Don Klipstein wrote:

True, and in recent times there is something else to consider. There are government mandates to lower the sulfur in fuel oils. Diesels depend on sulfur for lubrication. Now they blend in lubricity additives into diesel at the terminal to compensate.
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Pete C. wrote:

That used to be accurate but the low sulfur mandates have changed things. When they dispense diesel at the terminal they also have to add extra additives to improve the lubricity. Diesels depended on the sulfur for that. Now that most of it is gone they need to compensate. So when they dispense diesel there is an on road version that has the additives plus the dye and then there is an offroad version with the additives and no dye.
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George wrote:

Well, first off, the off-road / heating version gets the dye, not the taxed transportation fuel version. Second off, the sulfur lube issue exists for older engines, and you need to add the additives to the fuel you use for them, because it is not added at the terminal since new diesel engines use different materials to account for the loss of lubrication for the injector pump.
Here is some real information re: ULSD and it's issues. Again remember that a newly purchased diesel standby generator set will have accounted for the ULSD issues, and also will log perhaps 100 hours of run time per year.
http://www.chevron.com/products/ourfuels/prodserv/fuels/documents/Heavy_Iron_Volume1_2007.pdf
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Pete C. wrote:

Yes, I flipped the dye use. What I described is current practice. There is no additional qualifier for diesel except on or off road. Both get the additive and one gets dye. My buddy is the manager of the fuel farm that supplies most of the fuel for this area and my other buddy has a large liquid fuels business. I am quite familiar with current practice.

http://www.chevron.com/products/ourfuels/prodserv/fuels/documents/Heavy_Iron_Volume1_2007.pdf
The information I gave is real information. Your cite only says that because of complexity things may not be as described. According to my friends that is exactly what happened. They don't blend a diesel for new engines and a diesel for old engines because of the complexity. It already is complicated enough. Previously my friend could schedule deliveries of off road and fuel oil at the same time. Now they need to run off road, then on road, then fuel oil at separate times.
We don't know if the new genset they might purchase is suitable for use with ULSD and the whole point of this part of the thread is that there is a difference between fuel oil and diesel.
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George wrote:

The whole point is to ask the vendor of the genset you're going to buy. If it's of new manufacture it will have already been adapted to handle the ULSD.
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Twayne wrote:

Nonsense, any diesel will run just fine on #2 fuel oil. As just one example: I've personally watched a lyster engine run on vegetable oil, fuel oil mixed with motor oil, and even cooking grease thinned out a bit (quite a bit) with kerosene. Eric
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