The curse of BER

So I added calcium to the soil, I used fish emulsion fertilizer and I sprayed the leaves with calcium water. And BER set in anyway. No water stress such as dry roots. I water every day as it is quite warm and the pots dry fast. This is maddening because I lost so many tomatoes last year to BER. Just how much more can one do?

Reply to
Paul M. Cook
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I don't think this is the right fertilizer for tomatoes (although it is what I in my ignorance used), it has too much nitrogen. It's something like 511.

I found this:

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So, the fish fert may not be your cause, but it does not help and may indeed hurt.

Jeff

and I

Reply to
Jeff Thies

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Although some people believe foliar sprays can correct Ca deficiency in developing fruits, research is very inconclusive on this issue. What is well known is that Ca only moves in the plant via the xylem and moves with the transpirational water flow from the roots, up the plant and into developing leaves. Calcium has no ability to flow from the leaves via the phloem to the developing fruit. In addition, once fruit has grown to golf ball size, the waxy outer layer has developed and is believed to be quite impermeable to water. Therefore, it is recommended that all Ca supplied to fruiting vegetables be applied via the irrigation water so as to maximize uptake by roots

And BER set in anyway. No

Reply to
Jeff Thies

Sigh. I was using the fish emulsion as it was recommended. I posted earlier about using the foliar spray as irrigation water and was told it was less effective that way. So what the heck, I will add it to the irrigation water. I try to keep the soil from drying out. My pots get a gallon of water a day and if I do not water in the morning I get a little wilt by afternoon. This whole uniform water has me puzzled. I mean those plants do grow in the wild and surely a consistently moist soil is not something they enjoy. I can see BER is more of a challenge in container gardening.

Paul

Reply to
Paul M. Cook

Not so sure about that. The wild tomato is a completely different vegetable than what we grow.

and surely a consistently moist soil is not something they

I don't know that much about container gardening. I have noticed that being in a container loses the moisture tempering of being in ground. I've seen both standing water in containers and containers that were completely dry, even though it had been raining for days not long before. Soil and drainage is much more critical in containers, it is also much easier to control.

To make the whole BER thing more complex, it appears that calcium can be displaced by other ions or cations that may be in your soil. So, you may not have good tomato soil without ever knowing it.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff Thies

Use *much* larger pots.

If you have a layer of gravel at the bottom of the pots "for drainage" stop doing that.

Shade the pots by setting them in a wooden box (no bottom needed) or, use large foam or double-walled pots.

Set up a drip irrigation system so the pots stay evenly moist.

Some varieties are more prone to BER than others. Sadly, this is not something that is discussed in catalog descriptions and it's rarely brought up anywhere else. That's too bad, really. It would be useful information.

'Green Zebra' is a variety that has proven to be consistantly prone to BER in my garden. Liked the tomato, but stopped growing it because of this fault. It would suffer BER when no other variety did.

Long, pointed varieties (plum tomatoes, for example) are prone to BER.

'Early Girl' may be very popular but (in my experience) it is slightly more prone to BER than other small, round, quick maturing varieties.

Reply to
Pat Kiewicz

Think I am doing the same as you except I add a handful of pelletized limestone mixed in before planting and fertilize with a mixed garden fertilizer. When BER showed up several years ago, the limestone cured it. I also water a lot but pots will drain from bottom container if excessive, like a big rain.

It's still early in the season here and correction of problem could save rest of crop.

Reply to
Frank

It's been years since I had tomatos with BER. That's when I started getting my soil tested. I use dolomitic limestone to adjust the PH and it's worked fine for me for at least 25 years!!

Tom J

Reply to
Tom J

Last year, a third of my San Marzanos had BER. Not a third of the plants, but a third of the crop.

Reply to
Billy

How about just sticking some calcium tablets into the soil? I don't need 25 pounds of lime just for my few pots.

Paul

Reply to
Paul M. Cook

These are 18 gallon pots, they hold 2 cubic feet of soil each.

I just drilled 1/2 inch holes in the bottom for drainage. Works pretty good.

At the rate I am going my tomatoes will cost me about 20 bucks a pound. Just cut 2 more with BER.

I have Celebrity and yellow pear going at the moment. I am thinking the Celebrity is one I will not try again. The yellow pear did well last year and so far this year no BER.

I'll probably stick to patio from now on.

Paul

Reply to
Paul M. Cook

Well I'd guess that the calcium tablets about 6 oz. might cost close to 25 lb. of dolomite and the lime won't go bad. Growing with containers looks like small mistakes in the garden are focused or easier to make. I try to get stuff out of pots and into the ground then back into a pot if it is a houseplant late fall.

Reply to
Bill who putters

Hmmm ... how much dolomite should I add to a 22 inch pot with 2 cubic feet of soil? Or does it matter? I mean the plant will take it up as needed. Can you overdose?

Paul

Reply to
Paul M. Cook

On 6/18/10 10:24 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote [in part]:

I'm quite sure you will not find tomato plants of the type you want growing in the wild. Even heritage tomatoes represent decades or centuries of selective breeding.

Reply to
David E. Ross

I have a friend growing tomatoes in 10" to 12" pots. I know the tomato has a huge root system and I usually see them in 5 gallon paint buckets. Is she on a fools errand?

Why is that?

I've hear that some packages have BER on them to signify resistance.

Found this uber technical bit on BER:

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Any comments on eggshells? I've got a lot ground up in my soil. It would seem the calcium release would be slow, probably too slow.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff Thies

I've got a tool loosening the sort of like a cultivation but very narrow. Why use it becomes the question. Answer the blade is made of copper and is meant to diffuse a a small amount about. Getting back to egg shells ....my compost reflects what we eat. Many shells many bones many plants. Just return simple and complex as that. I've sort of gleaned from "Teaming with Microbes" a Billy heads up that my soil favors fungi and the bacteria are trying to obtain a balance of sort. ( Poor humanoid attempt to understand life) . Just in the last two days small 1/8 inch round fungi brown and Red appears on my wood chips and on my raised bed. I smashed the red for no other reason As I equate it with poison.

Reply to
Bill who putters

You are correct. Eggshell as a way to increase calcium level will work

- next year or the year after. Chalk dust, or even a ground-up Tums will allow the elemental calcium to get to the plant quicker. And remember, BER is 1/2 about calcium level, 1/2 about even availability of water. A good mulch layer is as important as the calcium.

Tony M.

Reply to
Tony

Not to be too terribly contrarian here, but you've done everything except the very _first_ thing to do when you notice symtoms of mineral imbalance: Check and correct soil pH! Second to water, pH is the major determinant of nutrients' availability to plants. In my view, the first course of action when signs of chronic mineral deprivation should be to adjust pH to neutral-to-mildly-acidic (7.0-6.5, say) and keep it there for at least 3-to-4 days -- preferrably a week -- before doing any further soil tests or adding amendments. Remember to adjust the water in which you place your soil sample to pH neutral and, while you're at it, check the pH of your irrigation water. Certainly don't simply gratuitously add stuff to the dirt ;-) You're finding out the hard way that nutrient and mineral deficiencies are more easily prevented than corrected because most (but not all) "organic" and/or "natural" sources of nutrients are relatively low-proof and slow-release. However, to directly address your present dilemma this site, -- cited elsewhere in this thread -- along with advocacy of further investigation into minimum levels of Ca relative to BER and of research into genetic predisposition to BER, offers this recommendation (although, it provides no evidence of efficacy):

should provide a

I have seen liquid preparations offered as foliar spray Ca supplements but have never noted their constituents. I assume the calcium is present in an ionic form that migrates easily through foliar and/or fruit cell walls but you never know.... It might be time to retire to a garden center and read some labels.

Reply to
balvenieman

A balance is struck between the size of the root structure and the size of the vegetative structure. They will be about equal. Larger the roots, the larger the vegetative plant.

Ca uptake is hindered by dry soil, or very wet soil that causes the roots to rot and become dysfunctional. Ideally, the soil should make a ball, if you squeeze it in your hand, but also break apart easily between thumb and forefinger, i.e. not too dry or too wet.

I've never seen it. It seems that some F1s are marked with resistance traits.

Among other things, it says that no one is sure if calcium has a role to play in BER ;O) LOL

Slow, that's the word.

Reply to
Billy

Soil pH tests 6.6 and my tap water tests 7.8.

I got this product called Foli-Cal. It is calcium acetate. The garden center recommended it. I mixed it up according to instructions and doused each plant with 16 ounces. Then I got the BER a week later. So today I mixed up a batch and watered the roots with the mix.

Paul

Reply to
Paul M. Cook

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