It's not Just Joel Salatin anymore

Page 5 of 6  


I think you might mean 'ungulates'. At least I assume you are but then there might be some sort of wavy beast about that I can't bring to mind?????
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FarmI wrote:

Dancing with the stars?
D
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You're obviously not drinking what I'm drinking. Wild undulates, I said that? I like it;o) I like it a lot. I like it too much!? I like it. Think I'll go slip into something drier. Feelin' a little humid.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
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Unless it's non-alchoholic, then you're probably right. I'm always the duty driver 'cos I won't ever blow over the limit.
Wild undulates, I said

No, you didn't say that, Doug did. But I liked it a lot too.
I like it;o) I like it a lot. I like it too much!? I like it.

Perhaps an aspirin might help too?
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For me, or for you?
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
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FarmI wrote:

Thanks for noticing my typo! Now I have visions of herds of wild grass eating caterpillars (which I had to look up in the dictionary to make sure I didn't make a similar spelling error ;^). When they all go into cocoons look out! We all know that their adult form is to replace humans with body snatchers. We're doomed.
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says...

If you haven't, have a look at "A Farm for the Future" on youtube.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Revolution
From above URL.
Romanticism Main article: Romanticism During the Industrial Revolution an intellectual and artistic hostility towards the new industrialisation developed. This was known as the Romantic movement. Its major exponents in English included the artist and poet William Blake and poets William Wordsworth, Samuel Taylor Coleridge, John Keats, Lord Byron and Percy Bysshe Shelley. The movement stressed the importance of "nature" in art and language, in contrast to "monstrous" machines and factories; the "Dark satanic mills" of Blake's poem "And did those feet in ancient time". Mary Shelley's novel Frankenstein reflected concerns that scientific progress might be two-edged. [edit]
Look for Albion and Blake and Wagner for past transgressions :)))
--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q0JfdP36kI

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snipped-for-privacy@snip.net says...

If you're responding to the link I posted, "Did you look up the video and watch all of it?"
If not, I have little to say except that I may be a romantic but not about gardens, farms, agriculture etc. ...and I've worked in industry and feel the the terms used to describe the machines, mills and factories in the wiki article and poetry don't do them justice.
I took lit crit in uni btw.
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http://www.americainfra.com/news/perfect-storm /
--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q0JfdP36kI

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snipped-for-privacy@snip.net says...
http://www.americainfra.com/news/perfect-storm /
LOL
One of the reasons I suggested "A Farm for the Future" is that one farmer has been developing a grass/plant mix that protects the soil and allows him to keep his animals on wet pasture during a British winter.
As for the link you posted... I think we're past the point where we need to know anything but what we already know. Badness is coming our way, stupid technologies won't help us survive and we must be prepared for dry, wet, or both; with a plan A & B, knowledge, experience, seed and community.
Our year has been too dry and our summer, too hot.
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Was this on 1/5 or latter I gave up after 1/5 video. I'm not sure badness in the cards but fear sure seems to be about. Last time I looked fear inhibits movement. Much better to mimic good when you see it and get on. I've been making topsoil for over 45 or 50 years neighbors wonder why. But I consider it gold along with Good quality hand tools. My well that I drove with my dad 38 years ago may be failing due to well point rot. I'm told I can get a new well BUT the old one must be destroyed. I want a back up hand pump for power failure. Stinks but the health department want and controls the wells per dwelling. This in water rich S. Jersey.
--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q0JfdP36kI

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snipped-for-privacy@snip.net says...

A local has a full copy from BBC with public showing rights so I've seen the whole thing as it's meant to be seen.
I forget exactly where it is in the video. ...To sum up the relatively short segment, it's possible to design pasture that builds and protects the soil so that you can overwinter animals in the pasture, even in the wet conditions of Britain.

Everyone I know does and feels the same about good quality tools though many don't get the need to have *sharpened* good quality hand tools.
I just shake my head when someone tries to hammer through a root with a dull garden spade or bludgeons the hell out of weeds with a blunt hoe.
The two maintenance tools everyone should have are a grinder to create sharp edges and a good file to maintain sharp edges while you work.

Geez... Can you apply for an exemption to that bit of law?
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Boy, you don't see them at all, and then you look, and they are everywhere. Thanks for "A Farm for the Future". <
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=a+farm+for+the+future&aq=0

Seems the first two installments were just setting the scene. The last three were very good. Thicker grass to prevent damage to the pasture by the steers, perennial crops, like nuts, replacing grains, increasing production by reducing size and increasing diversity, working smart instead of working hard, to re-ruralization, and a return for many to agriculture.
Excellent little video.
Britain already imports 40% of its food. If they can double their agricultural out-put, they can be self sufficient. Here in the U.S., our problems are the health effect of the grains that we grow, and the tenacity with which grain processors will exert to hang on to them.
--
- Billy
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In article

<http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2010/09/04/ST20100904 00158.html?sid=ST2010090400158>
Scientists find evidence discrediting theory Amazon was virtually unlivable
By Juan Forero Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, September 5, 2010
Article in the local fish wrap today about the Amazon, terra preta, and orchards. Pre-Columbian terra preta; "black, nutrient-rich, as good for agriculture as the soil in Iowa." Still fertile after 5 centuries of neglect. The Amazonian orchards, resonate with the no-till permaculture orchards envisioned in "A Farm for the Future". Forward to the past, where annual plants will play a smaller part in agriculture, and the tropics will play a larger part in food production?
--
- Billy
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Sounds like Permaculture.
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says...

It is permaculture.
Most of our associates here are trending to permaculture as are we. Wherever and whenever I can, I promote the idea.
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Doug Freyburger wrote:

Most beef cattle in Australia are raised on grass although finishing them in lots is reasonably common. Like all farming it's hard work but it isn't impossible. Somehow they manage to do it economically so that our export beef competes so well on the USA market that Uncle Sam raises tarriff barriers against it. So much for friends and allies. The big ag lobby has much to answer for.
This industry does use synthetic fertiliser (Oz farmers just looove superphosphate) but there is some movement towards more sustainable systems. One reason super is entrenched is - guess what - government subsidy. For years the 'superphosphate bounty' made it easy not to think, just put on more super. Sure Oz has phosphate deficient soils in many areas. However over the years millions of tons of super has been applied, where has it gone? Probably growing water plants and algae in the rivers. It isn't in the soil or if it is it isn't available because in many cases they have to keep applying it.
David
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David Hare-Scott wrote:

sure, but i'm thinking that what has happened is something else (more on this below)...
...

i disagree to the first one, we have the example already of topsoil retention in some areas that have had something done to them already (terra preta), so in effect it is possible to have soils that hold up against tropical rainforest conditions. the deeper question is why hasn't nature in thousands-to-millions of years figured that out for itself? that is the thing i was digging at earlier with my previous question.
the second part i do agree with.
returning to the first part though is where it makes the most sense to look into further. i.e. the fact that given sufficient moisture any area goes "up" towards the source of energy instead of investing in the dirt.
that is one thing i think that humans have come about to deal with, the fact that plants/animals/ other life forms cannot get any further towards the source of energy as things currently stand. the other problem of having all of the life-eggs in one basket (this planet/this solar system) is a proven strategy for failure longer term and i think we're "here" and have come about to deal with that too. we are the great innoculators. watch out universe. here we come! soon i sure hope.

there are some people with longer range vision who can do micro-pocket type stuff. having a game-preserve and having natural areas at least gives a chance that all will not be lost. the fear of the results of poaching and other degradation due to mass starvation would always be there as i'm quite sure when push does come to shove that the wild areas will start to be sacrificed. the only salvation really is that much of life is pretty tenacious and likely to survive here or there in small pockets and there will always be conservationists who will do their part to keep some diversity going. the great extinction now underway is unlikely to reverse any time soon. it will be a wave we have to ride and the other side is far away and likely hundreds of years in the future.

heh, yeah, the visionaries find that public policy and the elected life are too eroding to their own values to maintain integrity for long.
in any mass elected government you don't get the best governors, you get the best mass media manipulators.
my own answer to this is to randomly select all gov't workers (and then after they are in office and serving they can be re-elected as a vote of confidence every four years). this would save a lot of empty campaign rhetoric and eliminate the corporate and lobbyists buying influence. sure, we'd end up with bad representatives but they can be voted out and the random selection process would pick the next person.
if i didn't have to run for office and raise money to get elected and do all the wasted BS it takes to get elected i think it would be fun to actually be in office and try to deal with problems.
if only i were king, :)
songbird
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Fair comment David, but then there is a much higher cost to the quality of life for the animals? I'm sure that you, like me, have seen intensive operations such a feed lots and caged chooks.
I grew up on a poultry farm and my mother refused to have any cages on the place with the exception of a row of 10 where she used to put birds that were off colour and needed to be taken away from the bullying tactics of the rest of the flock. In the 50s and 60s when other poultry farmers were moving to cages and proud of it, we were free ranging. We once had a city person come back to us and complain about the eggs they bought off us. According to them, the eggs were 'off' and had to be thrown out because they had 'very yellow yolks'.
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