Boy, you don't see them at all, and then you look, and they are everywhere. Thanks for "A Farm for the Future".
Seems the first two installments were just setting the scene. The last three were very good. Thicker grass to prevent damage to the pasture by the steers, perennial crops, like nuts, replacing grains, increasing production by reducing size and increasing diversity, working smart instead of working hard, to re-ruralization, and a return for many to agriculture.
Excellent little video.
Britain already imports 40% of its food. If they can double their agricultural out-put, they can be self sufficient. Here in the U.S., our problems are the health effect of the grains that we grow, and the tenacity with which grain processors will exert to hang on to them.
Scientists find evidence discrediting theory Amazon was virtually unlivable
By Juan Forero Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, September 5, 2010
Article in the local fish wrap today about the Amazon, terra preta, and orchards. Pre-Columbian terra preta; "black, nutrient-rich, as good for agriculture as the soil in Iowa." Still fertile after 5 centuries of neglect. The Amazonian orchards, resonate with the no-till permaculture orchards envisioned in "A Farm for the Future". Forward to the past, where annual plants will play a smaller part in agriculture, and the tropics will play a larger part in food production?
""In America, the work I do is on the fringe, says Rieux. "Organic farming is still perceived as unusual and far from the norm. It was exciting to be in a place where the efforts of the entire government are behind sustainable agriculture. (Sustainable agriculture refers to an integrated system whereby the gardener works within natural biological cycles and uses only naturally occurring resources.) The idea of the small urban farm being highly productive, sustainable and the source of a nice income was heartening to see. Cuba proves it's feasible, it's happening. With limited gasoline to transport, refrigerate and store food from the countryside, food production was brought to the cities. Cuba now has one of the most successful urban agriculture programs in the world. The State is making unused land available to fledgling urban farmers and thousands of empty lots have been turned into organic oases. In Havana alone there are 8,000 organic gardens producing a million tons of food annually. The gardens range in size from a few meters to several hectares. The urban farmers primarily grow lettuce, bok choy, onions, chard, radishes, tomato, cabbage and broccoli. Gardens can employ anywhere from one to 70 people depending on the size of the garden. And people from all walks of life are participating."
It definitely appears that the future of agriculture will be diversification, and re-ruralization with a return to the land for much of the work force. From roof-tops, to balconies, to sustainable pastures, and to forest farming, each niche must be taken advantage of, if we are all to be fed. Hope is held out in the form of voluntary, smaller, family sizes, but between "Global Warming" and Malthusian "Over Population" we (the species Homo sapien, among others) will be walking a tight rope for the next century.
It is the end to giant monocultures, that seems to be the lynch-pin in this scenario. It removes the need for fossil fuel fertilizers, and ends the need to till the land, allowing for the return of topsoil and the sequestration of CO2.
Native Americans, both north and south knew how to manage forests for food. Is seems it is time to put the grass farming behind us, and to look seriously at what was destroyed in the way of sylvan agriculture. Garnish and veggies supply important nutrients, but we still need calories that only fat and carbs can provide.
I await David, to try and pop by bubble of optimism ;O)
Think of it as R & D. People had the same attitude towards "organic" once, and now it is the fastest growing sector of agriculture.
(snip)
If you took off your brown colored glasses, you would see that we we just referring to the CO2 out put from the US. But I doubt that China, or India has a death wish, and that they will adopt the generally recognized "best system".
Externalizing the costs is an old game. It is better to have your customer come to your backdoor, than to have to deliver to his backdoor. In France they still have the bread, produce, and dairy trucks that ply their way from rural home to rural home. "Faire la course" means to arrange your shopping, so that you only have to do the minimum traveling (walking or driving), to minimize the cost in time or gas.
(snip)
The direction that "A Farm for the Future" would take us, would do away with much of the annuals dedicated to carbohydrate production, and the forest farms aren't just sustainable but permaculture.
IIRC Petaluma Poultry sells whole organic, "free range" chickens for about $12 - $13 each. I'd pay more for pastured.
"To grow the plants and animals that made up my meal, no pesti- cides found their way into any farmworker's bloodstream, no nitrogen runoff or growth hormones seeped into the watershed, no soils were poisoned, no antibiotics were squandered, no subsidy checks were written. If the high price of my all-organic meal is weighed against the comparatively low price it exacted from the larger world, as it should be, it begins to look, at least in karmic terms, like a real bargain." Omnivore's Dilemma, p. 180
Even at this level Pollan isn't happy with the petroleum footprint that is left behind.
(snip)
Then these are monocrop farmers, looking for subsidies. The growth sector in agriculture is organic. That is where small farmers need to be.
(snip)
(snip) No population growth is a good thing, and their agricultural practices didn't create 0157:H7 E. coli, or superbugs ? those bacteria that have developed immunity to a wide number of antibiotics?the methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA), or cause half a billion eggs to be recalled. As far as us living longer, much of that has to do with medical intervention, not intrinsic healthiness.
Different time, but native Americans just set fires to sculpt the land, and promote hunting and gathering. Early Europeans said that American forests looked like parks. You'd probably enjoy "1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus - Paperback (Oct.
10, 2006) by Charles C. Mann
(snip) And we are LOSING topsoil ---> not making any.
It's been a few years, citation please.
(snip)
Google "terra preta", IIRC it has been tried with good results in Britain, and the U.S.
(snip)
No need to restrict ourselves to Salatin. See "A Farm for the Future" 3,
4, 5.
Another book, I'm sure you'd enjoy is "Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and the Controversial Science of Diet and Health" (Vintage) by Gary Taubes
One of the problems with fructose is that it doesn't tell you that you're not hungry anymore, and you keep on eating. The real problem is elevated blood sugar which elicits insulin which controls its consumption and storage. Too much insulin for too long leads to insulin resistance ---> type 2 diabetes, hypertension, obesity, and cardiovascular disease.
(snip)
This presumes that agricultural workers of the future will live as they have in the past.
(snip)
(snip)
Also known as "Persistent Organic Pollutants" (POP). Much of this (PCB, DDT, Dioxin) is in the oceans and is being concentrated by the plastic waste that has found its way there over the last 50 years. As the plastic breaks into smaller pieces, it is swallowed by small organisms, and sent straight up the food chain to the top predator, us. Not trying to overwhelm you but, "The World Without Us" by Alan Weisman,
is another real "page turner".
(snip) Increased meat production on grassland instead of in CAFOs, means that 70% of antibiotics in this country won't go into meat animals, thereby creating antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria.
(snip)
Try the 70% - 85% chocolate (high fat/low carb)
Ground covers need to be managed, and many of us do it in our gardens, so don't tell me that it doesn't work. If you want to poison yourself with carbohydrates, that's your business.
In "A Farm for the Future" #4 they talk about replacing grains with nuts, which have similar composition and yields.
I'm sure many said the same of "organic" farming a few years back.
All annuals are for disturbed soils.
Forest biome here.
No, let's concentrate them into urban areas. This is a side issue.
They know what causes that now ;O)
Don't put all your eggs into one basket. Start with "A Farm for the Future" 03.
sure, but i'm thinking that what has happened is something else (more on this below)...
...
i disagree to the first one, we have the example already of topsoil retention in some areas that have had something done to them already (terra preta), so in effect it is possible to have soils that hold up against tropical rainforest conditions. the deeper question is why hasn't nature in thousands-to-millions of years figured that out for itself? that is the thing i was digging at earlier with my previous question.
the second part i do agree with.
returning to the first part though is where it makes the most sense to look into further. i.e. the fact that given sufficient moisture any area goes "up" towards the source of energy instead of investing in the dirt.
that is one thing i think that humans have come about to deal with, the fact that plants/animals/ other life forms cannot get any further towards the source of energy as things currently stand. the other problem of having all of the life-eggs in one basket (this planet/this solar system) is a proven strategy for failure longer term and i think we're "here" and have come about to deal with that too. we are the great innoculators. watch out universe. here we come! soon i sure hope.
there are some people with longer range vision who can do micro-pocket type stuff. having a game-preserve and having natural areas at least gives a chance that all will not be lost. the fear of the results of poaching and other degradation due to mass starvation would always be there as i'm quite sure when push does come to shove that the wild areas will start to be sacrificed. the only salvation really is that much of life is pretty tenacious and likely to survive here or there in small pockets and there will always be conservationists who will do their part to keep some diversity going. the great extinction now underway is unlikely to reverse any time soon. it will be a wave we have to ride and the other side is far away and likely hundreds of years in the future.
heh, yeah, the visionaries find that public policy and the elected life are too eroding to their own values to maintain integrity for long.
in any mass elected government you don't get the best governors, you get the best mass media manipulators.
my own answer to this is to randomly select all gov't workers (and then after they are in office and serving they can be re-elected as a vote of confidence every four years). this would save a lot of empty campaign rhetoric and eliminate the corporate and lobbyists buying influence. sure, we'd end up with bad representatives but they can be voted out and the random selection process would pick the next person.
if i didn't have to run for office and raise money to get elected and do all the wasted BS it takes to get elected i think it would be fun to actually be in office and try to deal with problems.
because it has higher margins and has now been consolidated enough that it can even be big business.
if you don't remember the parts of TOD that were talking about organic farming, i'm quite sure that it was less than flattering for that type of mass production too for the chickens (access to the outside doesn't mean they actually go out there anyways because they don't live all that long) and for the vegetables and the milk.
i won't argue that it's worse though that is for sure. :)
if your point was valid they already had such systems going and have been abandoning them (going to western methods of production and consumption -- ruining their health in the process too). even the touted French are losing their resistance to fast food and they've gone back to brutality instead of keeping their ideal of egalitarianism alive (exporting the Rom).
so instead of having one business transporting goods (their job and focus is transporting goods in competition with other transportation companies i.e. they have to be efficient at moving things or they will be outcompeted) we now have multiple consumers (many who don't do things very efficiently at all) replacing them. i think that's a net loss in CO2 emissions/energy and time expended.
would you pay $25 per chicken?
*nods* once you figure in the distances that almost anything modern is transported (in the USoA of course since that is where the book is set) there is no minor footprint for almost anything. even the electricity can come from half the continent away (see the recent National Geographic article on the grid, it was quite informative).
so to get back to sustainable and local production then you've also got to examine the means of distribution. in the more densely populated regions it's more likely to revert to neighborhood farms supplying some of the foods needed, but once you get away from either of the coasts it gets pretty wide open in many places and the energy needed to get from point to point increases. you cannot have a CSA type operation going in prairie rangeland or the scrublands of the west that has people required to come get their stuff. it just won't work (efficiency wise you'd be burning more energy than gaining it from the food). so unless you're going to get more people to accept meat from cattle that is both range raised and then driven (as of old, not via trucks like now) to market that's pretty unlikely. and not many people find tough grass fed meat palatable...
come tell them. :)
no comment about ditch burning?
we really don't know if they had troubles with plagues prehistorically. seems like they had trouble with a shifting climate (the drought in the west) and perhaps agriculturally they didn't do well longer term with irrigation, but i'm not sure if anyone has actually studied the soil quality of those areas (erosion and time has probably made such studies fairly impossible but perhaps i'm wrong on that point).
a counterargument is that their agricultural and cultural practices left them susceptible to virulent diseases.
i'll add it to the list. :) (along with the others mentioned if i've not already)
true, we are losing it in some locations.
i took the book back to the library, i think one mention was around p 33. the other was later (not exactly sure where but i do recall it not being the same rate as Salatin's rate).
i have, didn't find anything about US or Britain tests. will look again next time i'm online.
sorry, not youtubable here. can you summarise them in words?
i think i've seen that one before. i'll add it to the list too.
oh, i can believe it...
i see no long term societal change in attitudes towards agricultural workers (it's reflected in the current migrant worker policies (or more accurately lack thereof of anything useful, fair or effective)).
when i start to see actual signs of respect for the environment returning in the general population i'll be greatly relieved. at present it's not there...
already on the list.
it doesn't matter if we reduce the use of such things as long as the rest of the world doesn't also change their overall practices, but also we have to change the medical profession which is abusing antibiotics... in other words, it's probably not going to happen fast enough to avoid some kind of major outbreak.
the current trouble with bacterial infections coming back from overseas medical tourism is just a small tip of that bacterial iceberg. non-medical tourism alone is going to keep mixing things up no matter what is done... i don't see an end to tourism, do you?
some are ok, but i've tended to go for about
65% max if eaten plain. i use higher for making chocolates sometimes.
what does your brain consume? last i knew it needed carbohydrates to function...
i love nuts (because i are one? 8-) ), and could eat them instead of meat any time.
Pollan seems to think it's been co-opted by the food industry. TOD was not very positive about organic farming once it was stepped up to any kind of large scale.
i'm hoping such criticisms can be heard and addressed...
TOD, and National Geographic both have mentioned that too.
also seem to be for places where moisture is limited (see the deserts bloom after a good bout of spring rains).
yep, almost any place that has some amount of annual rainfall it seems that the biosphere shifts upwards and the soil is effectively limited in how much it gets (some accumulation but not as much as grassland gets if the rainfall is enough to support that).
then you have to transport them back and forth to the farms each day which does not address the energy of transportation that has to come from somewhere.
i don't think that's being realistic... the side issue is a major issue that is why we are using such a large amount of fossil fuels to begin with (personal transportation) and why there is so much land devoted to roadways/ditches and parking lots...
not based upon how many i see knocked up rather early...
It is an exageration that diabetes is caused directly by sugar and other high carb foods. It is not an exageration that when a tribe that traditionally ate a low carb or slow carb diet is put on the high carb or fast carb western diet more than 80% develop diabetes. The causation is slow, somewhat indirect, and has a genetic component in societies that have had a lot of generations to filter out that tendency to diabetes. In other words my version is - High carb foods are only poison if you or anyone in your family has ever been fat or diabetic.
It is widely stated that the brian needs glucose and thus dietary carbs to function. Widely stated does not equal true.
Consider that even on an extended fast the blood sugar level does not fall towards zero. It remains stable for any non-diabetic. Fat and/or protein are burned and glucose is created in the process even with no diet of any sort. Add protein and fat as the diet, Inuit style complete with considering raw seal eyes a delicacy, and the blood glucose level remains stable.
That's in addition to the fact that the brain runs just fine on ketones from burning fat.
I conclude that gardeners should go veggies and fruits not grains. Leave the grains to the ranchers and large scale farmers. Come to think of it I never have grown my own barley. ;^)
No, it is the insulin peaks in the blood caused by the historically large amounts of carbohydrates that we presently consume, especially highly refined carbs (white flour, white rice, sucrose). The insulin controls metabolization of sugar, and fat storage, which in turn may lead to obesity, hypertension, cardiovascular disease, and insulin resistant type 2 diabetes. "May lead" because if you do a lot of physical work, you will probably be protected from the worst effects of insulin.
#3 harvesting winter grass for cattle is the largest expenditure of fossil fuel on this farm. WInter grazing at a neighboring farm is possible because of the mix of grasses, which make the grasses strong enough not to get dug up by cow hooves. Grasses don't require fossil fuel. Grasses inspired by woodland grass that grew naturally, without encouragement. Woodland grass grew on soil with biological diversity. Plowing killed soil organisms. Fossil fuel allows more plowing, and provides chemferts. Fossil fuel is used to grow crops in soil that is essentially dead. When fossil fuel runs out, we will need living soil. Cattle require a lot of land, and for Britain to become self sufficient, people will need to eat less meat, and farmers will need to raise other crops as well. Introduction of permaculture and permaculture expert Patrick Whitefield. Three ways of farming, drugery, fossil fuel, and design.
#4 Woodland are the most efficient growing system for the British climate. Farming based on natural ecology. "What we got to do is take the principals of this (the forest), and think how far we can bend them towards something more edible."
- Patrick Whitefield The demonstration farm is a collection of small clearings in a massive woodland. Chris & Lynn DIxon produce all the fruit, vegetables, meat, and the fuel they need to cook them, in return for a few days work per week. When they started, 20 years before, the farm was degraded, marginal, pasture land. The first thing that they did was let the land return to its natural state, a chaotic woodland, but in its present state, the chaos is very highly structured. The gorse fixes nitrogen, the bracken collecting pot ash, and by encouraging the birds, they are encouraging the phosphate cycle through the system. Thus no need for sacks of fossil fuel fertilizers, it's all provided by nature. Carkey Campbell (sp?)ducks provide insect protection. All the plants provides some service. Willow Leyland Ash (tree) branches are fed to horses, cattle, and sheep. Using the full height of trees and hedges, you can squeeze higher yields out of the same piece of land. The leaf liter supplies nitrogen to other plants.
#3 harvesting winter grass for cattle is the largest expenditure of fossil fuel on this farm. Winter grazing at a neighboring farm is possible because of the mix of grasses, which make the grasses strong enough not to get dug up by cow hooves. Grasses don't require fossil fuel. Grasses inspired by woodland grass that grew naturally, without encouragement. Woodland grass grew on soil with biological diversity. Plowing killed soil organisms. Fossil fuel allows more plowing, and provides chemferts. Fossil fuel is used to grow crops in soil that is essentially dead. When fossil fuel runs out, we will need living soil. Cattle require a lot of land, and for Britain to become self sufficient, people will need to eat less meat, and farmers will need to raise other crops as well. Introduction of permaculture and permaculture expert Patrick Whitefield. Three ways of farming, drugery, fossil fuel, and design.
#4 Woodland are the most efficient growing system for the British climate. Farming based on natural ecology. "What we got to do is take the principals of this (the forest), and think how far we can bend them towards something more edible."
- Patrick Whitefield
The demonstration farm is a collection of small clearings in a massive woodland. Chris & Lynn Dixon produce all the fruit, vegetables, meat, and the fuel they need to cook them, in return for a few days work per week. When they started, 20 years before, the farm was degraded, marginal, pasture land. The first thing that they did was let the land return to its natural state, a chaotic woodland, but in its present state, the chaos is very highly structured.
The gorse fixes nitrogen, the bracken collecting pot ash, and by encouraging the birds, they are encouraging the phosphate cycle through the system. Thus no need for sacks of fossil fuel fertilizers, it's all provided by nature. Carkey(sp?) Campbell ducks provide insect protection.
All the plants provides some service. Willow Leyland Ash (tree) branches are fed to horses, cattle, and sheep. Using the full height of trees and hedges, you can squeeze higher yields out of the same piece of land. Plants not producing crops are recycling nutrient. Cannon(?) Alder supplies nitrogen through its leaf litter ;O), and root system,
#5 and beneficial fungi link up everything under the ground, and move nutrients around from areas of high concentration to areas of low concentration. All the plants are there for a reason, or multiple reasons. Plants that attract beneficial insects do away with the need for pesticides. The garden requires, over the year, a day a week of work, but a lot of that is harvesting. Maintenance is 10 days/year. Yields from a forest garden (a low energy, low maintenance system) should be able to feed 10 people/acre, which is double the amount of people that contemporary farming can feed. What you can't grow is cereal crops, which can be replaced by nut crops, which are more sustainable. Orchards require less energy than a field of wheat. Nutrient composition of chestnuts is similar to that of rice.
Gardening with hand tools is more productive and energy efficient than farming. It's the attention to detail that an experienced gardener can give to a small plot that makes it so productive. They can provide up to
5 times more food per sq. meter, than a large farm.
Modern farming and distribution methods are unlikely to survive the increasing costs of petroleum. The modern demographic change of the 21st Century will be re-ruralization. Proportion of people involved in food production will increase.
----- The above remarks come from Martin Crawford, Patrick Whitefield, and Chris Dixon. See site below.
Songbird, drop me a line at snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.