# It's not Just Joel Salatin anymore

In article < snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-se ptember.org>,

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Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden
globalvoicesonline.org
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Cool, I saw Frank Zappa in concert three times. The last concert he replayed the older songs from Mother of Inventions. "Don't eat that yellow snow". It also tells you how old I am:)
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Enjoy Life... Dan L

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Billy wrote: ...

these numbers do not look right. i don't think there's that many calories available on 100 acres of pasture for that many animals (figure the herd must be around 100 animals for cows alone).
does the basic math add up right here Billy?
songbird
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Sorry, I'm no a rancher. The above is a quote from
The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals by Michael Pollan <(Amazon.com product link shortened) 583/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid06815576&sr=1-1>
p. 126
I see where he goes from pounds of beef to rabbits and turkeys, so he may be talking weight before slaughter and not weight of meat (maybe). Then you need to remember that the steers are eating the cellulose in the grass, and the chickens are eating bugs from the grass and the bovine poop, so they are each taking a separate slice of the pasture. For more information go to <http://www.polyfacefarms.com/default.aspx
SAVE THE FOREST MULCH
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- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
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In article

If you got to <http://www.polyfacefarms.com/default.aspx and click on "Principles" there are 3 videos to watch. In the first video "Mimic Nature", Daniel Salatin mentions that the turkeys get 20% of their feed from the pasture, so it isn't a closed system.
Today on "Democracy Now" <http://www.democracynow.org/ there are 2 reports on food production. One is on egg production and the other is on meat production. They both fit nicely into the discussion that we we having on the quality of food. They don't talk about increasing supply, but rather about maintaining quality.
Since the food supply has become so integrated, just on supplier can screw up the system for many others. It's like the dog food scandal, where one supplier provided the cheapest source of protein powder, which turned out to be adulterated with melamine and cyanuric acid to give the appearance of higher levels of protein.
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- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
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Billy wrote: ...

sorry, slow dialup, i don't watch video or youtube here...

yea, i read something the other day in the WSJ about eggs being recalled and new rules (FDA i think) that just went into effect. we'll see if they actually help. two producers and hundreds of millions of eggs.

what ever happened to monopoly enforcement?

that was outright fraud. which is a moral and ethical issue apart from sustainable agricultural practices. i didn't follow up what happened back in China but i think there were comments about, "facing possible execution."
songbird
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Relax, he was executed. The dog food was feed to steers, pork, and fish. Feel better?
"Pet Food Politics: The Chihuahua in the Coal Mine" by Marion Nestle (Amazon.com product link shortened)82796329&sr=1-2
She isn't the best of writers, but it is a good book.
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- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
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Not just dog food! They were executed for putting the same stuff in human baby food formulas which killed several babies in China. The baby formulas was not sold in the US.
Have you purchased cod, catfish in stores? Product of China. Some have statements like "Carbon Monoxide added for flavor enhancement" on the bags????
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Enjoy Life... Dan L

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In article < snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-se ptember.org>,

China's economy is growing at a rate of 10%/year. This would probably come under the heading of deadly growing pain. I saw an interview with some of the workers of the factory where the wheat flour was laced with melamine and cyanuric acid (they are about 5 times more deadly in combination than alone), and the workers smiled and said, "Yeah, it looks like it has more protein." They obviously didn't have a clue about its effects on a living organism. People thought that they were buying wheat gluten (not laced wheat flour). There isn't one wheat gluten for animals and one for humans. This was one of the points that Amy Goodman was trying to make about the integrated global economy. No one knows what's in the food anymore, because it has be made from a mish-mash of ingredients from around the planet. In 2006, China ranked third behind India and Mexico in the number of food shipments refused by the FDA. These dame neo-nutcake-liberals don't want any government regulations because it impedes business. But as we can see with the egg recall, people are getting sick because business is on the honor system. The least we can do is give the FDA the authority to declare a recall when they see a health concern. The FDA also needs to be funded for what it has been mandated to do. The funding for health concerns should be taken away from the USDA, which markets farm products (conflict of interest), and be given to the FDA.

That is damn decent of them. Here in the good ol' U.S. of A., we do it without any kind notification. <http://meatisneat.wordpress.com/2009/10/07/what-a-gas-packaging-meat-in - carbon-monoxide/> The carbon monoxide binds with the hemoglobin to keep the meat looking fresh (red), no matter how old and funky it may be. This is done to some meat that is wrapped in plastic. It is also the reason that I won't buy meat that is wrapped in plastic, like Saturday's, barbecue, pork ribs.
How's "Eaarth" coming along?
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- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
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In article

I have sometimes wondered about wheat gluten. When I make my own homemade breads I do not have stomach upsets. However I almost always get heartburn and upset stomach from "added gluten" in store bought products. I have been tested negative for celiac or wheat allergies. I make my own foods and tend to stay away from packaged foods. Why I have my own chickens and a Jersey milk cow.

A very interesting site. You correct "Damn decent of them"! Other companies have been doing it for years!!!! We are living on a new world. I think I am going to get a boat a start fishing here in the great lakes. I do miss the taste of good sea food, not just lake food. Only thing in sea food markets are the bug foods, lobster, shrimp and oysters.

A very good book, currently on page thirty. He seemed to give up on changing the world. Shifted to self protection. Seems like I have been doing just that myself in the last few years. Just like the economy and global warming, what can one do except, do our part and protect ourselves.
We are living on a new world called "Eaarth". Learn to live with it.
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Enjoy Life... Dan
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.
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Mmmmmm.. A Jersey. How much does she produce a day?
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Nothing yet, impregnated the cow last week. She should produce more than I can drink. Will learn to make my own cheese products with the extra. The cheese making equipment is not cheap. I read, not done it yet, it takes 17 pounds of milk and one year to make one pound of parmesan cheese. Bessy plays like a dog, wants to be petted and runs and romps around. Sometimes I get a little nervous around her with her playfulness and hope I do not get hurt.
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Enjoy Life... Dan L

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I'm sure she will :-))
Will learn to make my own cheese products with the extra.

You can make soft cheese very easily and wouldn't need anything more than you'd have in your kitchen. Either make yoghurt or make junket using Hansen's junket tablets (although I seem to recall that USian for Junket is something else - curd perhaps???). Line a colander with an old soft tea towel, pour in the yoghurt or junket and tie up the towle and hang it up and leave it to drip overnight. if I ever have to let soemthign drip overnight then I upturn and old stool that I keep just for this purpose and hang whatever has to drip off a long handled wooden spoon place horizontally across the bottom of the stool.
I read, not done it yet, it

Yeah I think that'd be about right. I've read up on it to as it's something that's always interested me, but we don't have a dairy cow, I've only ever made soft cheese but they are delicious and easy to do.
Bessy plays like a dog, wants to be petted and runs and romps

Yeah. I'd be a bit nervous too. If she ever does start throwing her weight around and pushing you, get rid of her instantly and replacce her.
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Dan L wrote:

How was it for you? At least she wouldn't want to share your cigarette afterwards.
She should produce more

I have the same worry when Mootilda bangs her face into the feed bucket I am holding. Cows seem very rough compared to horses. I am pretty sure she won't deliberately hurt me but the horns come close.
David
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No smoker here, however the vet was up to his armpit and cost me \$80 :)

HORNS!!!!!! Bessy was dehorned from day one! The holes filled in within a week. The feed buckets are next to the summer shelter. She does not see me put feed in the bucket. If she sees me she runs at full speed to me. She has a two acre pasture to play in. I will create another two acre pasture by next spring next to it. Same feeling here, if I get hurt it was not intentional. I do not want her to be afraid when it comes time for milking. She has a good friend, a chocolate labrador that comes over and plays and romp together.
Currently she is milking me for money like there is tomorrow. Which worries me a little. I call this the infrastructure cost that should last a long time. One major cost is concerning me. I would love to get a mini hay bailer, but they are extremely expensive. Right now my neighbor bails hay for me.
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Enjoy Life... Dan L

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In article < snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-se ptember.org>,

Wow, talk about service. You both got . . .ummm . . ah . oh, never mind.

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- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
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Dan L wrote:

Did you ever read the books or see the TV series "All creatures great and small"? It's about country vets in the UK and quite delighful. In it the chief vet declares (truthfully) "there is much good information to be had up a cow's arse". This was on prime-time TV about 30 years ago, I nearly fell off my chair laughing.

Many people find it cost effective to pay a contractor to cut and bail hay instead of owning the machinery.
David
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But do you think people would look? Oh no, too busy, too self-absorbed, too self-conscious to even take the tiniest little peek. Harumph.

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- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
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That is me because cost.
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Enjoy Life... Dan L

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Dan L wrote:

sterilized buckets, cheese-cloth and a culture of some kind. none of these are majorly expensive. some heat source during the cooler months if your place of production is not insulated well... the most expensive part is the time it takes to finish or age and that means storage space. the people who use caves have it right. mmm!

uhoh,

you gotta show her who's boss. physics, otherwise, will not be your friend, in this equation.
songbird
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