Re: You know what they say....

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Woulda, coulda, shoulda. He was surprised in his own home. People should walk around armed in their own homes? 'course not.
The question is not guns, it's safety, and what he did or didn't do to safeguard his family and home. My choice would be to stop the people from entering in the first place. There are many ways to do that. Your choice is what? Sleep with a gun under the pillow.
I like my choice better.
R
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wrote:

No reason to not have *both* options. That's what *I* prefer. ((BTW, gun under pillow, nope; gun within very easy reach, yup. It's a matter of safety.))
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<snip>

I prefer my Bichon. He's soft and warm, and a girl-magnet.
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That's great, as long as you're not allergic to dogs. OTOH, dogs can be shot by invaders, too =:-(
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They are one of, if not THE, most hypoallergenic breeds.
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Tha's not part of my personal experience, but OTOH, I'm not one to tempt fate by getting in a cop's face so to speak. IOW, I do acknowledge that there are a few/some dangerous cops. At the same time, I'd never draw on one - that'd be suicide.
As for the sheriff's son, why can't the community find some way to take action? Not being rude, just asking.
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Oh, I see - reading teh whole story, yeah, sounds like one of those "local history/culture" things that can be completely mystifying to someone who is new to the locality.
Having moved a lot, I've been similarly mystified quite a lot - well, either that, or I'm just generally confused ;)

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[ ... ]

The entire reasion that most people call someone like me (and I'd guess you also) "paranoid" is that they are somehow able to either forget, or be completely oblivious to, the fact that there is a lot fo violence in the world.
But really, it's like the people who act all surprised and aghast when they hear that a parent was abusive - like, what, they were deaf to the shouting adult and screaming child?? Another thing I "love" <sarcasm> is the people who *insist* upon leaving their doors unlocked because they prefer to beleive they're safe, than admit they aren't. It only takes one nut walking through the door - we almost had that happen, and more than once, at our house when I was a kid (two attempted break-ins, one escaped criminal).
Maybe most people just haven't had the same experiences, I dunno, but there are some things that really do tempt fate - I think it boils down to an immature belief that bad (or even fatal) things always happen to someone else, so the deluded indovodual sees no reason to "fuss" with preparing for circumstances.
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Don wrote:

Without guns, there are no gunfights.

I've heard that resisting an attack may be worse than not resisting one. If true, resisting an attack with a gun will still pose a certain level of risk beyond not resisting.

Maybe.
That seems a different, if related, issue. Here's yet another: Have cost-benefit analyses been done with regard to free-for-alls for guns, versus certain forms of gun-control? I mean, while Sean may have been spared had he had a gun-- a "hole/leak in the boat plugged-up"-- what other holes might open up as a result, and would they be bigger and/or more numerous.

If Sean had a gun, Sean might still have been dead.
> The shooter and his clan are from my hometown.
I suppose they're also pro-gun like you, too?

I'd appreciate it if you came up with some, or more, hard evidence to back up your cases, Don, and that you, say, pretended that that-- your research-- was your "gun". Otherwise, you might as well be pissing in the wind while you're standing down-wind...
It's possible, and you get to relieve yourself, but you end up smelling and looking funny.
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Don wrote:

In that particular anecdote, sure, but that doesn't take into account the big picture. Your picture is too little to support your apparent point.

Cough it up, then. Let's see the research beyond the glib. Put on your fucking combat boots, pack your iron. You wanna talk about pussification?

You tell me. It's your thread... or do you just have a knife? Is your gun too heavy to take out of it's holster? (takes glove off, slaps Don in face with it) Wanna shoot yourself if the foot? Happy to just piss in the wind?

Make your point, or do you just want to beat off around the bush?

Me? Trolling? That's a riot. You're trolling... (slaps Don again with glove)... because we've gone over this gun thing before. Hard of hearing or reading? Up for some rehash? <*slap*>

I'm calling you on it. If you have a hard case, I want to see it. Gun stroking only goes so far. It's its shooting that counts.

(puts leather glove back on, spins gun around a few times and whips it back in hoster)
DRAW, LISENBACH!
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Don wrote:

(Whips cowboy-hat off in disgust, throws it to the ground, kicks it and spits on the ground... Looks up and glares at Don for an instant, ponderin'... as the dust settles around... and mutters:)
"Ah thought as much..."
"...You got as much yella-belly as your say 'n' bout your goverment, bo-ah."
(Sticks straw blade in mouth, chews it a little, looks up again at Don...)
"I'll be in the saloon... with the men."
(Adjusts holster, picks up hat, & moseys on into the saloon...)
;)
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Don wrote:

Not exactly. I meant that, in another time and place, some might be capable of some questionable things. I'm thinking in part about the kind of things the Milgram Experiment, for example, seems to suggest.

And on controlling others; and mindlessly following orders. Stuff like that.

You can't have a contingency plan for every possible eventuality. If you did, you'd probably live in an underground bunker.
You also can decide not to own a gun, despite full knowledge of the possibility of being killed by someone with one.
And good luck at overthrowing your gov't with it with the kind of weaponry it has at its disposal.
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Don wrote:

Fair enough and agreed.
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Just a few days ago, a repeat felon with a history of violent crime tried to break into a house, in the late afternoon, and where the family was obviously at home. THe surprised homeowner had time to tell his wife an dchild to leave the room, and then grab hiistol and shoot the intruder - who, given his history and apparent desperation, would almost certainly have harmed the family.
I've heard a lot of anti-gun stuff from poeple who have never been attacked and/or in fear of thier lives, and/or the lives of their loved ones. SInce i haven't had the priviledge of that insulated a life, I personally like havin gboth the means, and the legal right (here in Texas at least) to defend myself. IMO that is a personal choice - if someone else wants to be potential fodder, it's completely up to them, btu they have not right whatsoever to **ORDER** be to make the same choice. As for criminals, well, even in countries where guns a re banned/outlawed, criminals still find ways to get them. Gun restrictions end up restricting people who actually obey the law, because people who don't give a damn about the law (or about their victims) will simply get them on the black market. Wasn't there just the other day a mass shooting in Finland of all places? You cannot magically cure social ills or personal disfuntion by simply making it illegal to own/use certain objects.

THat's inane. I dunno abou Don, but I'm over 50, arthritic, and therefore out of shape. I'd have Zero chance of defending myself against a knife attack, even is I had a bigger knife. And no, my guns are not too heavy to lift - it's mroe sensible to use a smaller gun which one can wield effectively. If you load your .22 with hollow-points, you're better off hitting an attacker five times with the smaller load, than you are if you shoot a .357 once and miss, and can't regain control after the kickback in time before the attacker nails you.
And sorry, but not all people who own guns are idiots with no concept of gun safety, i.e. likely to shoot themselves in the foot or whatever. My grandfather had been a forest warden in the old Chechoslovakia before he came here, and after that, never bought meat in the store; my father was a championship marksman as well as an occasional hunter (andnyes, "one shot", as in that movie "The Deer Hunter"). All I've ever done is shred paper now and then, but shooting is part of my family and cultural history, and it's rather irksome that you choose to imply that these traditions are ONLY the realm of idiots - frankly, that says mroe about you than it says about all people who enjoy shooting or even hunting.
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Well, that's true. I guess the initial think is whether one has that drive/will to first of all survive. I know how I've reacted in the past, and the combination of adrenalin and pure "pissed-off-ness" can overcome a surprising amount of physicla shirtcomings ;)

True. Been considering that.

Good point. And it doesn't have to be more than a 12-guage, really.

Good point ;)

I didn't know the statistic - I'd thought there was a wide disparity, but I didn't know it was that huge.

That's the other part of th eproblem. I'd prefer it if there was some way to nip this stuff in th ebud, before kids turned into violent felons, or even if there was some sort of treatment/rehab in prison - but I'm one person and can't change the world. Just improve, and hopefully protect, my very little piece of it.
I just get more than a little bit wearyof having people screaming that what is to me a tradition, and one I deal with very safely, is "murderous sh*t". Hell, I've never even slapped someone for no reason - I have a temper but I'v enever resorted to violence unless someone first perpetrated violence upon me, or upon someone else who couldn't take care of themselves (IOW, I'd protect a kid from an adult if need be). So I get just a wee bit miffed when people scream that anyone who owns a gun is a violent and potentially murderous scumbag.
TO me, it's my version o f Zen Archery. Except that the gun range is maybe 2 miles from here, whereas I have no idea where any archery ranges are ;)
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Yeesh!
More like revolting door =>:-p
THat's enough to boil one's blood, for sure.
[more snippage]

Heh, never thought of it that way. Well, I always say "follow the money", so there ya go...need to follow my own cliche'...

Huh? They had the wrong address, or what...? Why did they come to you? It's not like you shot the guy...

The only assistance I count on is having enough saved up to be able to afford a good lawyer if need be. nobody is looking out fo rmy rights, or for me or any of the rest of the "nobodys" - which would be OK except that lotsa poeple are looking out for all sorts of crooks and creeps, and using out tax money to do so =>:-p
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Oh, I see. Well, it's expected that they'd do that. A lot of times, people see something but don't eralize what it is until later. OTOH, tho', even if you heard "something", chances are that it'd be meaningless, becasue of all the many variables involved.

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Kris Krieger wrote:

I'm neither for nor against "gun-control"-- whatever that means.
Odd effects can happen when you do things, even with good intentions, whether it's controlling guns, not controlling guns. And while we're looking at gun-control, maybe we're missing other related sociological dynamics along the way-- perhaps the ones that have a greater bearing on how and why, etc., people kill with guns.
Think of people as your enemies and they'll become your enemies.
Arm everyone with guns, stand back and see what happens.
Bring your clipboards and take notes.
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Don wrote:

Then why have laws at all? Again, as a thought-experiment, delete all laws, pack your clipboards and see what happens.
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Don wrote:

You might have something there, and if it would work-- especially better than what we have now-- I'd be all for it.
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