Nimrod

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Nimrod was a mighty hunter, strong, swift, and wily, in Greek (I think it was Greek) mythology.
What I can't figure out is, How and when did the name come to be used to designate unthinking silly people?
I'm wondering whether it's being confused with Mork's "nimno". Or some mush bnetween that and 'nitwit' (a nit being the egg of a louse, i.e., a tiny thing that hatched into a brainless but annoying parasite).
Just wondering.
--
- Kris M. Krieger

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Cross-posted to alt.usage.english for some help. One hopes.
On 05 May 2005, Kris Krieger wrote (in alt.architecture)

I've only recently encountered "nimrod" as a term of abuse, and had precisely the same reaction.
I've done a google and a search in alt.usage.english, but as neither of these turned anything up, I'm cross-posting this in the hope that someone (hiya, Donna!) might help.
--
Cheers, Harvey
Architectural and topographical historian
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Oh, I never came across that group - interesting :) [ self-snipage ]

Well, I'm relieved (nto kidding!) that I'm not the only one. I seem to have a vague recollection of some teen or pre-teen in some silly movie using the term like that, but it's not something that had enough significance at the time for me to remember accurately.
OTOH movies are the source of a LOT of misinformation...
- KMK
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- Kris M. Krieger

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Cross-posted to alt.usage.english for some help. One hopes.
On 05 May 2005, Kris Krieger wrote (in alt.architecture)

I've only recently encountered "nimrod" as a term of abuse, and had precisely the same reaction.
I've done a google and a search in alt.usage.english, but as neither of these turned anything up, I'm cross-posting this in the hope that someone (hiya, Donna!) might help.
--
Cheers, Harvey
Architectural and topographical historian
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1. The name comes exclusively from the Bible (Old Testament, Genesis 10, 8-9 and a couple more mentions.)
2. English speaking people were quoting the Bible when they associated the name Nimrod with hunting. When people knew the Bible fairly well (say 1600-1950) such associations were common (cf. Jonah, Samson, Daniel, etc.)
3. Nowadays most ESP do not know the Bible so well, if at all -- but these biblical names persist, so people try to find newer associations for them, perhaps the best permitted by their knowedge and experience.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
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Don Phillipson wrote:

Knowedge and expewience, no?
-- john
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OH! Well I was sure way off base :( ! I wonder how I got it mixed up with Greek gods?

Thanks for the info :)
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- Kris M. Krieger

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[snip]
Well, they had Orion, frequently described as a "mighty hunter."
--
Best -- Donna Richoux


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snipped-for-privacy@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) wrote in wrote:[ ... ]

That could be it. A definite possibility. Also I do tend to get confused between the Greek gods and the Roman gods and others from that area of the world, and, although I've read the Bible, there are many parts I'm not familiar with, the Nimrod passages being among them.
--

- Kris M. Krieger

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As with Nimrod and his tower of Babel, the ancient Greeks built high towers, as with the cities Pergamos and Purgos (both meaning tower), as did the ancient Turrenians (turret-builders) of Sardinia, (but whose structures are generally known by the Arabic talayot).
, > --

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Bugs Bunny applied the term to that mighty hunter Elmer Fudd.
--
J.

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Often. And ironically. Since most of those who watched Bugs Bunny had neither the biblical background nor the semantic subtlety of the Erudite Rabbit, "Nimrod" was taken to mean "idiot".
--
Chris Malcolm snipped-for-privacy@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
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wrote:

Bugs Bunny is a very interesting character for that reason. There are layers in those old cartoons - they so much funnier now than they wer to me when I was a kid ;)
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Harvey Van Sickle spake thusly:

I have never heard Nimrod used other than as a reference to the proper name.
It should be noted by non-UK folk that in the UK there are two common uses, related to this proper name. It is the name of the main movement of that most English of 20th Century classical music - Elgar's "Enigma Variations". The "Nimrod" movement depicts a close fried of Elgar's called Jaeger (there's a classical/multlingual joke here).
And it's the name of an RAF marine search and rescue aircraft (geddit?) based on the Comet. Being an island nation, we have frequent need for search and rescue at sea - the Nimrod is familiar to all because of its bulbous nose which houses the radar.
http://www.mrprophead.com/MilAir/Nimrod.jpg
--
David
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David the Omrud wrote:
[ ... ]

ObAUE -- Technically the "Enigma Variations" are not structured in movements. "Nimrod" is a variation. Purely as a matter of opinion, I'd rate Elgar's "Pomp and Circumstance No. 1" as a dram or two more English even than "Enigma" -- which is, nevertheless, a magnificent composition.
Has anyone -- God forbid -- written words to the "Nimrod" melody, as has been done to P&C No. 1?
As for the pejorative meaning of "Nimrod," found in the US, I've often wondered if the vague similarity to the likes of "numbnuts" had anything to do with the drift in meaning. (In case anyone was wondering what I often wonder about.)
[ ... ]
--
Liebs

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Robert Lieblich wrote:

I was playing a piano transcription of "Nimrod" last night - wonderful stuff, but so many chords! P&C1 may be more English to you (I can't abide it personally), but for pastoral England you can't do much better than "Nimrod", unless you've got Vaughan Williams' "The Lark Ascending" to hand.
Will.
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Will spake thusly:

Aaaarrrgggh, not the blasted Lark. Variations on a Theme by Thomas Tallis, that's the one. Nearly knocks Elgar off the English perch.
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David
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the Omrud wrote:

You know that I, as a jumped-up hairy-kneed sweaty colonial, am perfectly disinterested when I say you can delete <Nearly> from the above. And perfectly correct, of course. (There's something about these Gloucestershire Welshmen.)
But don't knock the Lark: perhaps it's England's equivalent to "Allegri's" Miserere. If I didn't think it might ruin it for my progeny, I'd leave money to have it played at my funeral. (Actually, that's an interesting question...)
--
Mike.



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Mike Lyle spake thusly:

For some reason, the Lark never swept me along, but my main problem with it is that in my Classic FM years they used to play it every few hours.
But I grew up near Elgar and walked his hills at the weekend, so he's talking directly to me.
<pseud's corner> The recording of the Elgar cello concert played by Jacqueline du Pre and conducted by Barbirolli is the most perfect work of art of the 20th Century. </pseud>
--
David
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"the Omrud"

Is this classical music? I rarely hear anything-- at least from what I've heard and from what I've investigated so far-- worth listening to in this vein as well as others, including commercial music, and an album of Bulgarian chants ... Any (esoteric?) recommendations?
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