Woodcraft Magazine sleazy marketing

[good ol' Bob]

I requested and have received woodcraft catalogue for some time now. I have ordered from their catalogue, and have been satisfied with the merchandise. HOWEVER, I received an unsolicited copy of Woodcraft magazine, originating at the same source as the catalogue, i.e. my name was obtained from their catalogue mailing list. I phoned to advise that I did not desire to receive their magazine. Today I received an invoice for the magazine. I phoned again to advise them to not only pack their magazine where the sun won't shine on it (I was actually much more discreet with the language, but you get the picture.), but to remove me from their catalogue mailing list as well. There are plenty of sources for such as is in their catalogue. I, for one, refuse to encourage a company which engages in such sleazy practices. Hope more will do the same.

God gave man the ability to reason for a reason.

Good ol' Bob

[Jim Giblin]

Woodworker's Journal (a magazine) tried a similar scam last year. They started a 'book-a-month club' and sent out the premier issue unsolicited to people who subscribed to their magazine. The book came with a request for payment if you wanted to keep the book and prepaid, return postage if you didn't want the book. I kept the book and tossed the bill and the return postage coupon. Unsolicited stuff that comes in the mail is free as far as I'm concerned.

[Dhakala]

Unsolicited stuff received via mail is free as far as the law's concerned, too.

More than 10 years ago, I edited a magazine about BBSes and (later) ISPs. One of our writers mentioned a new $12,000 workstation from Sun (the Indigo) and how he'd "love to have one." The drooling comment was directed at our readers, not Sun.

Sun sent him one. He wrote a lovely review of it. Almost a year later, Sun sent him an invoice. We told 'em to take a hike. They did.

[Joe User]

Dhakala wrote: > One of our writers mentioned a new $12,000 workstation from Sun

SGI made the Indigo. Sun workstations of that era were SPARCstations.

[jmac]

I also get catalogs from Woodcraft, and subscribe to Woodworker's Journal. I have NOT had the same experience as the two folks quoted here. Just thought I'd add a bit of "fair and balanced" reporting.

jmac

[Vic Baron]

[A.J. Hamler]

Good ol' ...

Free sample copies of the magazine are included with orders from Woodcraft Supply, no strings attached. It is a free gift, with no obligation whatsoever. There is a sticker on the cover of the free sample that says, simply, "Free trial issue, subscribe today, return card inside." That's it. If someone wants to get the magazine, they return the card. If they don't want the magazine, they don't return the card. There's no obligation. You don't even have to read the free issue if you don't want to; give it away if you'd like, or just toss it out with the rest of the packing material.

You DID NOT receive an invoice for the free issue, or for a subscription as a result of us sending you a free issue with your order. No invoices are sent for the free issue of the magazine that is included with Woodcraft Supply orders. We don't even have invoices printed to use as follow-ups to the free issue. No process exists for billing people for the free issue, nor do we have any plans to institute such. Further, we here at the magazine have no idea who is ordering from Woodcraft Supply (we're different companies, in different buildings, located in different zipcodes), so it's not even possible to know where to send an invoice.

We simply DO NOT send invoices to people who have not requested the magazine; we only send invoices to people who have either requested the magazine or who have returned the subscription card.

The free issue is not a sleaze. Not a scam. It's just a free issue. Period.

A.J. Hamler, editor Woodcraft Magazine

PS... Someone else in this thread mentioned the "Woodworker's Journal scam." It was no such thing. Their free book DID NOT come with a request for payment if you want to keep the book. Their hope, of course, was that you'd want to sign up for the book club, but it came with crystal-clear instructions that whether you chose to join the club or not, that the book was a gift --- it was yours to keep, free, or you could send it back prepaid, without obligation.

[A.J. Hamler]

Good ol' ...

Free sample copies of the magazine are included with orders from Woodcraft Supply, no strings attached. It is a free gift, with no obligation whatsoever. There is a sticker on the cover of the free sample that says, simply, "Free trial issue, subscribe today, return card inside." That's it. If someone wants to get the magazine, they return the card. If they don't want the magazine, they don't return the card. There's no obligation. You don't even have to read the free issue if you don't want to; give it away if you'd like, or just toss it out with the rest of the packing material.

We have also sent sample issues out to names from the Woodcraft Supply customer lists as part of a one-time mass mailing. Again, these are free samples sent to entice folks to subscribe. Every magazine does this. There is no obligation, and no invoice is sent unless the recipient has returned the card or ordered the magazine

You DID NOT receive an invoice for the free issue, or for a subscription as a result of us sending you a free issue, either with an order or as part of the mass mailing.

No invoices are sent for the free issue of the magazine that is included with Woodcraft Supply orders. We don't even have invoices printed to use as follow-ups to the free issue. No process exists for billing people for the free issue, nor do we have any plans to institute such. Further, we here at the magazine have no idea who is ordering from Woodcraft Supply (we're different companies, in different buildings, located in different zipcodes), so it's not even possible to know where to send an invoice.

We simply DO NOT send invoices to people who have not requested the magazine; we only send invoices to people who have either requested the magazine or who have returned the subscription card.

The free issue is not a sleaze. Not a scam. It's just a free issue. Period.

A.J. Hamler, editor Woodcraft Magazine

PS... Someone else in this thread mentioned the "Woodworker's Journal scam." It was no such thing. Their free book DID NOT come with a request for payment if you want to keep the book. Their hope, of course, was that you'd want to sign up for the book club, but it came with crystal-clear instructions that whether you chose to join the club or not, that the book was a gift --- it was yours to keep, free, or you could send it back prepaid, without obligation.

[Phisherman]

[BobS]

Excellent response. Now maybe the OP will look again at the "invoice" and let us know what he received.

At any rate, appreciate your input.

Bob S.

[Brian Elfert]

Any print media pretty much makes more money on advertising than on selling the magazine itself. Magazines will sometimes keep on sending out issues so they count as circulation to boost advertising rates.

I work for a major newspaper and the amount we charge for the paper is only a fraction more than what it costs for just the newsprint in each paper. Advertising is what pays the bills for a newspaper. How many people would pay $2 a day or more for a newspaper?

Brian Elfert

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Yes, but the twits sent a second request for payment. That is SLEAZY marketing. No, I'm not sending it back, no I'm not paying for it. If they are dumb enough to send a free book to me, that is their problem.

BTW, how do you know so much about someone else's business? Perhaps you should mind your own and let WJ take care of their own lumps for such marking ploys.

[alexy]

Sounds to me like someone who very wisely keeps a close watch on what his competitor is doing.

This sounds emotional for you. Frankly, I appreciate his trying to "clear the air" about his competitor's action while he is addressing concerns about his firm raised here. The fact that he is "defending" his competitor gives a fair amount of credence to the idea that is a misunderstanding of the nature of their solicitation.

[Never Enough Money]

I also have not had that experience. I've receive no unsolitited magazine or anything I dislike. In fact, when I receved a shipment from Woodcraft today, it had several pieces of hard candy in it. The item was backordered so I figured it was their form of an apology....nice touch.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

It gives credence in your opinion, but I'd think it more believable had I not gotten a second request for payment.

It is also possible he has first hand knowledge of what the "competition" is doing because the publishing house may be in cahoots with both. Who knows, he may be the guy that brainstormed the WJ book deal.

[Charlie Self]

Journal

right. And keeping track of the competition is what goes on in almost any business, as you damned well know. You later state that he might have brainstormed the deal...you need to slow down and think. A.J. formerly was editor of Woodshop News, not related to either WSC or Rockler. Add to that the fact he now works for WSC, a major competitor of the owner of WWJ (Rockler). Add to that that A.J. has a pretty good ethical standard, and I think you're way the hell off base here.

[Bob Schmall]

Ed: Like Charlie Self, I agree with most of what you post, but not on this one. I worked in media for years, magazines and newspapers, and I can assure you that competitors DO NOT get "in cahoots" about anything, least of all circulation. Most of what you've written is just speculation with absolutely no facts behind it. The whole idea of the free issue ploy is to get the prospect to subscribe using the bounce-back card that's enclosed. Invoicing after sending a free issue is just a waste of time--actually counterproductive since it pisses off too many of the prospects. And a "publishing house" is a term to describe just that--the publisher. In this case we're talking about two different, competing publishers. It would best if you put down the keyboard and backed away on this one. 8-)

Bob

[good ol' Bob]

Mr. A.J. Hamler:

You, sir, are either completely unaware of what transpires within your own company or are a bold face liar posting here on this newsgroup to deny your company's practices. I have in my hand an INVOICE from your company, numbered 101, and with an account number of 110116. It is in the amount of $38.35, and is for a period of one year which includes 7 issues. I was quite puzzled when I originally received a copy of the magazine as it was my first awareness that such a magazine existed. I was concerned that there had been a mix-up so I went to the trouble to call and advise your company that I had no desire to receive the magazine. I recently received the now much discussed INVOICE from your company, and followed up with yet another phone call to cancel the magazine and the catalogue. The original magazine did NOT come as part of any other package. There was no "sticker" anywhere on or in the magazine explaining anything. Your desperate online denial of these facts convinces me that I have done the right thing in terminating any relationship with your company that I may have had in the future.

[A.J. Hamler]

Mr. Jones...

Thanks for the account number. The number made it easier to check things out than do your ravings.

To make this easy for you to understand, I'll use short sentences.

You, or someone you know, returned an insert card asking to receive the magazine. The card was of the bind-in type that you have to physically tear out. It came from the October Woodcraft Supply Catalog. It was filled out by hand with your name and address. We received the card on

12-1-04. We only send invoices to people who have filled out and sent in the card. We received the card; the invoice followed. We still have the card on file. Your computer record shows that the subscription has been canceled.

However, because things take a bit of time, you will still likely receive issue #4. Consider it a gift. Consider it junk mail. Consider it a dead fish if you like.

By the way, the phrase is "bald-faced liar," not "bold face liar."

Have a nice day, and don't forget those meds.

A.J.

[alexy]

LOL! That was pretty easy to guess. I was going to suggest to "good ol" that a statement of the facts and request for looking into them might be more effective than name-calling, but you are to be commended for rising above it.

P.S. While some folks complaining here have come out looking like the north end of a south-bound horse, I still think it would be in order for you to review procedures to see how a misunderstanding like this got escalated to this degree of frustration.