And actually, after viewing a catalog of this manufacturer's available
components (I have a bookshelf shelf full of OEM electronic catalogs),
it is, in fact, an OEM spec'd NHD magnetic switch. Right down to the
knobs, case and internals.
What I can't figure is why they included a spring loaded, rotating
collar on the STOP/OFF knob. They could have saved .06 by omitting
that part and substituting a plain sleeve. MFG's start-up delay, I
assume. It does absolutely nothing but sit there, mocking me. ;-)
I apologise for top posting a summary. and I may be answering several
posts, I just can't wade through all of this.
"Agree or disagree, but as Sergeant Friday says, Just the Facts,
If in error, you may call me on it, but it's a report, not brand
You state a fact that I can accept. with whatever method you are
using (other than a Profilimeter) the table seems to be better
finished. But it is gritty and has grit in some of the fastener
holes. Then you go into a diatrobe of assumptions. The table was
apparantly reground and you describe the method that was used to
regrind it. as if you are an authority. as if you know.
table was not reground. Sanded? Maybe, but again not likely.
Grind process as described. Table located on a fixture with three
mounting locaters, not the mounting bosses. ( you machinists know all
planes established by three points all related features must come off
of those locating points). Multiple jacks provide support but are not
locators. Table starts to reciprocate back and forth slowly at
approximately ten strokes per minute. Vertical shaft wheel with grind
segments starts to feed down very slowly. Whole process is
continually flooded with massive amounts of coolant pumped at high
velocity (without which table would warp and scorch) which also
cleans it of previously ground sludge. Feed continues for
approximately five minutes (not seconds), recip is slowed for spark
out and table is flushed, removed, deburred, checked for flatness
(third of four times), moves to double t-slot mill to establish bottom
of slot in relation to the new plane of the top (abandon locators for
this, new plane of the top more functionally important.)
But as I mentioned, it is not important. What is relevant is that
there was grit on the table and you're right, that should not be. And
I don't know how it got that way. Have some ideas but that would be
speculating and offering assumptions.
You are right, area around insert opening most difficult to hold flat.
and numbers on the table while not terrible are not that great
Other stuff (below) when inaccurate, equally not important, and I'm
not going to wade through it.
And yes, I do know the refurb being moved to TX. All prior references
in my posts to Jackson, Tn doing refurb were after it stopped in
Tupelo and before B & D closed on the business and decided at a later
date to move the process to their facility in Texas. And that doesn't
And I'm not whining, hope you finally get through all this and
actually start using your stuff. You know woodworking is very
relaxing. And I want you relaxed and in a good mood. Cause I have a
plan. All regular posters stay at your house during IWF next summer.
and maybe a couple of dozen lurkers. Your wife won't mind will she?
Just kidding Greg
Yeah, it's getting deep... <g>
I'll try to be brief, but it's hard... oh, so hard...
Uhh, that's diatribe. And it implies a bitter, resentful, possibly
angry, denunciation within a lengthy discourse. I thought my approach
was pretty light hearted. Nothing bitter or angry about it. Lengthy
perhaps - and some enjoy hearing more than the standard 200 words.
Perhaps the use of the term grinding 'dust' is what misled you.
Slurry and waste remaining after the lube/coolant used during the
surfacing process has evaporated equates to 'dust' in my mind, and is
far more succinct.
I never implied that they threw in on a table, attacked it with a
grinding wheel dry, sparked it until it was pitted and turned blue.
You inferred this ignorance on your own.
And it wasn't some of the holes - it was all of them.
All the way through/to the bottom.
But none on the table's skin.
They DID wash it down - just not the holes.
Another demeaning, backhanded comment, perhaps?
Hmm... I've done automotive machine work in my younger days, and
unless they've come up with a new sub-molecular surfacing machine, I
have a pretty good idea. And yes, that is an assumption.
I had to build a crude device to surface the side housings on
cast-iron rotary engine parts because no shops were set up to handle
this 'non-conventional' item - and they didn't want to mess with it.
And a homemade lapping machine based on alternating A-B-C-D patterns
was used to smooth the final surface.
So I have a vague idea of what's going on here...
I wouldn't own machinist's tools if I had no inkling.
_This_ table was resurfaced. Not the original table to the saw.
Swapped as part of the refurb. Saw has had minor usage - all evidence
supports this. Table blank has seen much more use than the saw
itself. The pads for the insert have been used for so long there are
divots well worn into the iron. That hue iron gets from age. But
there's not one scratch from the miter gauge, no spots from moisture,
no finger prints, no coffee mug rings. Just a freshly cut surface
smeared with cosmoline (assumption - or whatever they put on them).
It was not sanded, the milling marks are clear, clean, but rough.
Stains that have been ground from the surface, but have left behind
the tell-tale signs of their existence. I've worked with cast-iron
and aluminum for many years. Not as a manufacturer, but in the field.
I've seen the before, during, and after appearance of a machined
Forensic determination of a chain of events extracted from an
inanimate object is something I'm fairly good at. <opinion>
This table is used, and was remachined. <- My experienced opinion.
Interesting overview of the machinery. But my assumption wasn't far
off either. Different mounting points, speed, and a quick gloss-over
concerning the exact procedure. Never claimed anything about the
machinery itself. And the grey grit suggests aluminum oxide abrasives
of some sort. Looks just like the dried slurry that comes from Al2O3.
And I believe that even the most insulated home handyman knows about
machining lubricants, coolants, surface flushing, slurry, overheating,
etc. Anyone who has sharpened a chisel has some limited experience.
Didn't include a lengthy diatrobe <sic> about it because....
Exactly! It wasn't germane to my point.
It's wasn't that big a deal - to me- just a suggestion to make for
happier customers. After some of the stories I've heard here from the
less mechanically inclined folks trying to mount extension tables, it
seemed to be something that should AT LEAST be pointed out in the
manual. Clean out the crap from the threaded holes.
Grinding that bolt into that hole with a wrench whilst trying to hold
a table vs. whipping it in there by hand. And perhaps I'm just an
anal perfectionist, but the though of it all makes my skin crawl. I
pointed it out because the manual neglected to point out this
seemingly obvious fact.
Fastener torque values, longevity, potential stress points and cracks,
ease of assembly and disassembly are all affected by a failure to
remove grit from threads and then forcing a fastener into place.
Thanks, we agree on something... <g>
This isn't a scientific treatise. It isn't intended to be held to the
highest standards of jurisprudence. It's a freaking book report. <g>
I didn't know I needed to hire a proofreader.
If only our government was able to be so precise...
Frank, it's not your opinions, your knowledge, your useful input into
problems people may have - what grates on me is the smug attitude.
Perhaps I read too much into the way things are said, but that's how
it seems to me. And believe me, I can be a real asshole myself.
I only have to look down to see the feet of clay. Size 11. <g>
Perhaps they'll expedite things and dig a tunnel under the border?
Yeah, that new(ish) Friendship Freedom Bridge in Brownsville is sure
gonna help out there... <comedic assumption>
Really? I've heard that - but you couldn't prove it by me. <g>
But I'm working on it - as I have time. After bolting on the table
extensions, however, I'm having a bit of trouble getting the ridges in
the table joints down to an acceptable level. Tried flexing the
tables slightly during assembly and bolting them down, but after a few
hours, the ridges are back. They really are not flat. The first
table was far flatter, just a lot rougher. I'm still working on it.
The fence doesn't want to clear the ridges in the table joints without
hanging up either. The gauge that they apparently custom cut for each
fence isn't even of any use. If I use that to align the fence L-rail,
the fence just slides on the table surface, and slams into the ridges
and hangs. It would tear the fibers out of the "hand fitted, Finnish
birch plywood facings" if I didn't fudge it. These are things that I
may work around, but some could not. That means a potential
dissatisfied customer and a returned product.
Actually, that would be pretty cool. If'n I had a big'ole barn and a
bunch of cots, I'd say, "Bring 'em on". As it is, I wouldn't have
room for more than a couple...
And SWMBO wouldn't mind a bit - she wants to run a bed and breakfast.
I'm the introvert in the family. Well, me and a few of the animals...
But I'm not certain I want to host a public flophouse for the
International Wrestling Federation. Someone might get hurt by a big
I didn't even know they were holding it in Atlanta this summer.
COMDEX '93(?) was enough for me...
You are correct, thank you for the vocabulary lesson. However I meant
it in the archaic , second meaning of lengthy discourse. I certainly
saw nothing violent or bitter either and I apologise if it offended
you. Some would say archaic meanings would be appropriate for a guy
As mentioned, I don't know how it (dust) got there, just know it
wasn't reground. Or let me qualify that. In one post you gave the
dates of manufacture and the date of refurb. During that period of
time the machinery that does the grinding, t-slotting, milling,
drilling, etc. was out of service. The saw was assembled in Jackson,
Tn, and the refurb was probably also done in Jackson. Jackson did not
have any equipment to regrind. The equipment was being moved from
Tupelo to a subcontractor in north Alabama and was not up and running
until after that time frame.
Additionally, finished tables are not reground because they have to be
remachined in some or all of the other features. t-slots, insert
depth, hole location on skirt and the approach to minimum thickness
allowable in the table body. If a table is bad, they just grab
another table from stock and assemble it to the unit.
Now is there a chance that someone sent this particular table out to a
custom machine shop and paid four times its cost to resurface it?
Well, anything is possible.
If telling the truth about what you know is smugness then I'm guilty.
I think it could be more closely defined as "here is what I observed
or measured, and here is what apparently happened and how it happened
without having enough information to draw the conclusion.
As I post this I notice that chapter two has been added. Do I even
dare to open it? It is such nice day and the sun is out, maybe I'll
Have a nice day Greg. Put your saw together and use it. Line the
cots up in the garage.
<all the other stuff snipped because of exhaustion>
And I totally FUBAR'd this paragraph.
Too much cast-iron on the brain...
A cast-iron arbor _shaft_ would probably last about 20 minutes... <g>
It should read...
Arbor _mount_ seems cast, but the grain structure looks tight. (The
arbor shaft is machined steel - don't know the exact alloy.) Canadian
General claims a forged arbor (and the only forge in the business) on
their better saws, but to be honest, I've never heard of a broken
arbor shaft that wasn't accompanied by abuse. Bent blades, impact,
big hammers, and bad bearings all come to mind. ...yadda... yadda...
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