Table Saws, plus....

[Leon]

How do you measure return? We already have data to tell us how to teach for the best return. Look back to when we were less dissatisfied in the results in our educational system, use that method again. Dumbing down the system so that every one is accepted, dumbs down the country as a whole. The education system that was turning out rocket scientists back in the 50's and 60's seemed to work the best IMHO.

No child left behind is ridiculous. Not all dumb kids can be made smarter but all smart kids can be made to be dumber.

[J. Clarke]

Except that it wasn't turning out rocket scientists, it was turning out Hippies. You have to go back to WWII or before to find a system that was turning out rocket scientists.

The big problem is that we have this attitude that _everybody_, no matter how _stupid_ they are, has to graduate from high school, so high school doesn't mean anything anymore.

Yep. I'm fine with the notion of educating everyone to the limit of his abilities, but not with the notion that everybody can or should be educated to the same level.

[Swingman]

England had a Tripartite System where there was a fork in the education road at the "Eleven Plus" exams. Basically, your performance at 11 or 12 years old dictated your suitability for secondary education.

As a result, living and workng in England in the early sixties, it was hard not be impressed with the educational level of the general population in ALL walks of life.

I thought it was a helluva sensible system ... probably went away with political correctness.

[Steve Turner]

Hooray for everybody!

[Larry Jaques]

Yeah, back when I was in school, I may not have liked all my teachers, but I respected and obeyed all of them. Kids nowadays don't seem to do that at all.

No child left behind = No kid gets ahead.

-- Know how to listen, and you will profit even from those who talk badly. -- Plutarch

[Bill]

Lots of them don't even respect and obey their parent (s). But that's only half the story. There are lots of good kids out there too. Everybody can probably name a few.

Bill

[-MIKE-]

Well, the world needs ditch diggers, too. --Judge Smails

:-)

[Larry Jaques]

It just appears that things are different now than when we went to school. Pocket knives were OK then.

Now I read about some schools where metal detectors are being installed at all school entrances, armed guards man the hallways--and sometimes in the classrooms.

-- Know how to listen, and you will profit even from those who talk badly. -- Plutarch

[Steve]

Ref.: "Idiocracy"

[Bill]

Yep, kids today seem to be better armed... The prospect of being cut or shot did not seem like a possibility when we went to high school.

[Steve]

The horrible examples -- like the girl who walked back into my wife's classroom after having been called to the office and announced to the room as she pointed at Jane, "That bitch wrote me up" -- are the easy proof that bad get more notice than good. But she should have checked behind her. The Vice Principal was there, and the girl's no longer going to be attending school.

And no, that apple did not fall far from the tree.

[J. Clarke]

What state is this? The only way to remove a kid from school around here is to get them sent to jail. Technically they can be expelled, however they are still owed an education, so the district has to provide tutors for them, which costs a lot more than letting them back into school.

[Larry Jaques]

The USA in self-fulfilling prophecy, unfortunately. Scary, scary movie.

-- Know how to listen, and you will profit even from those who talk badly. -- Plutarch

[Larry Blanchard]

Most of the guys in my high school had switchblades :-). Not to mention the occasional zip gun. And I remember one football player who carried brass knuckles.

Surprisingly, the only kid I remember ever getting hurt by all this weaponry was one knucklehead who put smokeless powder in his black powder muzzleloading pistol. Blew his thumb off. He didn't get a lot of sympathy.

[chaniarts]

really? my mom retired from teaching after putting in 25 years in 1985 because someone pulled a pistol on her in class, and who was back in school after a 2 week suspension.

[Bill]

Sorry, I generalized too fast. Location, location, location... We had

3 sides of town and 3 high schools. I went to the one in the middle, it was on the west end. Attending the school on the east end would have been scary 30 years ago. As I recall, the kids at the 3rd h.s. had a reputation for spending a lot of money on drugs (KO).

Bill

[Steve]

That would be metro Indianapolis (MSD Lawrence Twp).

Today's adventure was the e-mail the girl sent to Jane -- "Just continue to be a bitch..." And that got her bounced from the next school where she lasted one day. Sad thing is, the student had been doing well in the subject.