I suggest you check your facts on this one. There is nothing in Websters'
Unabridged to suggest this. The ethnic slang is a missappropriation of the
word jig. I suppose if racist started calling dark skinned people ding-
dongs that hostess should rename their product.
Two for the board and one for the nail.
Both Webster's and the OED (much more helpful in this as in most
things) attribute the use of either jig or jigaboo as a derogatory
racial slang word to the early half of the 20th century. I used the
Webster's online version. It seems obvious to me that the term came
from 19th/20th century white preoccupation with black dancing forms,
"jig" being a common word for certain dance forms. I suspect that
quickly, owing to broader cultural forces, the term took on a
The ethnic slang is not a "misappropriation", at least not in the way
that historical linguists view semantics: that's precisely how many
words have acquired their meanings--in just the way you imagine
unimaginable ("ding-dong"). Negro and gay immediately come to mind. If
"ding-dong" were to become a slur I would bet money that Hostess would
I sympathize if you think that the names for foods (or whatever)
should be straightforward, but that's not how words have,
historically, acquired meaning. For food specifically, check out
Louisville author Martha Barnette's book, "Ladyfingers and Nun's
Tummies" for an interesting look at cuisine etymologies. I'm careful
to note that you say "should", which indicates your favor of
prescriptive definitions--to which I too am partial--but at some point
you have to allow that many if not most words acquire meanings
indepent of prescriptive reasoning.
I've lived mostly in NV, NC, and TN, and I've heard it a good deal, as
a racist term mostly in its full form but sometimes the shortened
form, in lots of discourse--guess I've been keepin' worse company....
I don't see any harm in "jig" when the context is obviously
mechanical, but then again I'm not black and I don't have to worry
about being sensitive to those kinds of names. I won't presume to say
what should or should not be a sensitive issue for someone else.
If the context were in doubt I'd be happy to use the word fixture if
that makes someone else less defensive. No skin off my back...
Trying to keep my dogmas unfixed,
One of my closest friends is an older black man. It's been said that this
group is the most sensitive because they have lived through a very
deameaning time and were the primary targets.
Knowing I work with wood and have often used the term "jig" in his presence.
He sees the term for the context that it was delivered and takes no offense.
Of course, he can only speak for himself and I agree with the person that
said he could use the term "fixture" just as easy if it will spare feelings.
While I think that political correctness can go to far, we all have to
decide which side of the mountain to die on and this just isn't a show
stopper for me.
I'm not sure what you mean by "rearranged" so I can't speak to that.
I'm in love with Norma Loquendi (pace Safire) and historical
linguistics, though, so my interest in the many different ways that
words acquire and change meanings has its practical uses.
I despise political correctness, which I *think* is what you're
referring to. My point speaks to a simple "do unto others..."
approach. That, and the fact that I grew up with minorities as
friends, has taught me not to pretend a knowledge of what should or
should not make someone else offended, until I understand them
I'm not, BTW arguing for the abolition of the word jig, as you'll note
from my original post. I was just explaining why another WW might have
made the point he did with a knowing glance.
I was at the local Agway last Sunday, and noticed that the birdseed
used in thistle feeders is now known as Nyjer seed. Used to be Niger seed.
I doubt that the complaints came from the chickadees.
The titmice have their own issues to deal with.
I've heard this the last few years but I'll be damned if I can figure where it
came from. I was born in Japan almost 50 years ago and back then Japan was part
of the Orient. In any case, I never thought "Oriental" was a degoatory phrase
but merely an acknowledgement of origin.
You must consider that given the original meaning of "Orient" as "here
the sun rises" in contrast to "Occident" (where it sets) from a
japanese point of view America would be "the Orient" while Asia would
be the Occident....
It's one of the dumber ones IMHO. In all the languages I know anything
about, the word (identical, or very similiar) "oriental" just means
I forget the etymology here. I think it's from Latin. "From the direction
of the sunrise" or something like that.
I'll leave it for someone else to go look it up. I'm too lazy ATM.
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan < firstname.lastname@example.org>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
No, no, this really is a good change, as Juergen tried to point out.
The basis for the change is geographic, not political: it's not a
"political correctness" issue in other words.
Orient is Latin for the present active participle of orior ("to
rise"), which came to mean even in Roman times "The East". That
geographic definition worked well for as long as Westerners
communicated pretty much only with themselves. If we wish to include
the East in our global communications now, as we do, then we can't
really refer to Asians with a word meaning "Easterners"--which doesn't
make sense to them. Unless, of course, you don't mind being referred
to as a South American by Canadians....
| Well, my silly question is, "Are these jigs or fixtures?"
Basic difference: a fixture holds/guides the stock; a jig holds/guides the
A fixture is a device used to hold stock in place while you work on it. A
vise, by this definition, is a sort of universal fixture. Assignment #1,
first week of class: design a fixture for a brake disc. Classical
solution: first square the stock, then use a generic square fixture to hold
the stock while you drill the radial hole pattern, then make a fixture with
the same hole pattern and bolt the stock to it while you machine the profile
(grooves/holes, circular outline, etc.). And yes, this is metalworking, not
woodworking, but the definition ought still to apply.
A jig may be a fixture in that to do its job it must also secure the
workpiece. But the primary role of the jig is to guide the tool, whether or
not it also secures the stock. In the modern manufacturing world where you
can have CNC machinery the notion of a jig is somewhat outdated. You just
tell the tool where to go, and how fast, and it happens. In our world,
where we have generalized hand-controlled tools, jigs take the form of
pocket-hole devices, router templates, guide rails, etc. that constrain the
motion of the tool to the path we wish it to follow.
A pocket-hole jig is an example of a jig that doesn't also need to be a
fixture. You fasten the jig to the workpiece and it guides the tool, but
the stock can be held any way necessary or comfortable. Some dovetail jigs
also function as fixtures because they hold the stock in place (since you'll
have both hands on the router) as well as guide the router through a
"Fixture" would be the proper term associated with holding stock for use in
a table saw. Many CNC systems also work by moving the stock, so "fixturing"
need not be interpreted as "holding the workpiece stationary" but rather by
holding the workpiece firm in a certain coordinate system of the tool. If a
tool works by moving a platform -- with workpiece attached -- along a path
relative to a stationary cutting bit, then a "fixture" would ensure that the
workpiece does not move relative to the platform.
This sounds to me like one of those freaking irritating know it all type of
people who feel they MUST correct everyone all the time so everyone else
will talk like they do. Their way is correct, everyone else is wrong. These
idiots really gripe my ass ya know? Its not like the creep didn't know what
you were talking about, he just had to correct you anyway. Its some sort of
compulsive thing I guess. Jig, fixture who cares? I would have known fully
well what you were speaking of if I had been the other guy, therefore no
correction from me would have been necessary at all.
| Jig, fixture who cares?
I really don't, prior post nothwithstanding. None of my mechanical
engineering and machinist colleagues care. They all use "jig" and "fixture"
interchangeably ("jig" mostly).
I know the difference, but I don't often respect the difference. Especially
with the kind of tooling I deal with, the differences aren't usually
important. The original poster asked if he had been looking at "jigs" or
"fixtures". Well, if you *really* have to know the difference, there's a
way to tell, and I used to have to teach this so I know the difference.
But the guy who's saying, "You need to be careful and not call jigs
fixtures," is vastly overstating the issue. If you said something like that
around our manufacturers they'd laugh and accuse you of being some sort of
If you want to call a jig a fixture, or a fixture a jig, or call it all
"tooling" (which I do a lot), or point to it and call it a "thinga-ma-bob",
you'll probably find me doing it right alongside you.
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