The Unisaw arbor bearing thread got me to thinking about the SawStop. I
am considering the purchase of a SawStop and naturally I was wondering
how the repair/replacement of the arbor bearings would be handled under
warranty and or after warranty. I have heard nothing but good thing
about the SawStop and the service that SawStop provides.
Speaking with the SawStop rep a few minutes ago I inquired about this
possible situation of having to replaced the arbor bearings. He
indicated that because of the way the SawStop is constructed and the
fact that the arbor assembly drops down below the table during a brake
activation that the assembly is not "fixed" so to speak. It is
relatively easily removed as a unit and is replaced as a unit. SawStop
keeps exchange units on hand for this purpose. After warranty he
indicated that they charge a very reasonable price for the exchange,
charging only for the bearings that are being replaced.
Now while reasonable cost is relative, it is nice to know that this
service is being provided and that there would be no question as to how
best to remove, replace, and or position the new bearings.
That is interesting and obviously a good service.
I am wondering just how many other saw makers offer similar service. I
guess if you go high end enough, this kind of thing may be common place.
But I have never seen it or heard of it. And I have crawled around under a
table saw a few times to fix/align something. And most guys I know who have
a shop are "fixers" and do their own repairs. But the above mentioned
service is a good thing.
The other thing I find interesting is that the whole arbor assembly drops
down. It is movable. I never thought about how it actually worked. But it
makes perfect sense. Think about it. If the sawing part of the saw is
movable, then it has to maintain perfect alignment while being able to be
stopped instantly and dumped beneath the surface. The sawing and stopping
are two diametrically opposed kinds of action. That is a tidy bit of
engineering there. And the parts involved would have to be heavy enough and
precision enough to perform this "grabbing and dropping" function. And
still saw too.
I know that Gass is an overbearing asshole. But that saw is a very good
piece of technology. And if he is offering this kind of service to back up
this technology, then that is a good thing. Even if he isn't.
I never gave it much thought, the after the warranty service part, until
I visited the Hammer/Felder site. They have their own crew that goes
out and does delivery, maintenance, etc. I am sure that comes at a
relative price. I have replaced the motor on my old Jet cabinet saw, 13
years ago and replaced the start capacitor on the same motor. I can do
it, but I would rather some one else do it these days. All of that
stuff is heavy and too close to the floor and tucked inside of a box. ;!)
Well I have noticed that the SawStop trunnion/innerworkings are much
more like the style that the Euro saws have, like the Laguna, Hammer,
Felder, etc. The American style saws trunnions move the blade up and
down on a pivot in a slight arc. The SawStop and Euro saws move the
blade/motor/arbor assembly straight up and down on relative large steel
dowels, the front "dowel" on the industrial SawStop appears to be over
I never thought about how it actually
This is all very interesting Leon, and I hope you keep us all up on
your discoveries. I am like Lee on this, impressed by that simple
feat of engineering that could make changing the bearing so simple.
Many years ago a friend of mine had a cabinet shop, and their main saw
that was on all day long was an old Delta 12" industrial model. When
they needed bearings in that saw, it was a three day event. Finally,
they had a factory trained guy come out with a helper and they got it
down to one full day. They remove the top, take it apart as far as
they needed to, then took the fittings with the bearings in them back
to their shop to press the old ones out and press the new ones in.
Then back out on site after lunch, install the parts, then spend
another hour getting the top back on and to 100% true. Back in the
<<80s>> this was a bit over $300.
So the idea of simply taking out the necessary component to replace an
arbor assembly without removing the top seems almost genius. If I am
reading your post right, the new/replacement assembly comes with the
bearings in it, so if it is bolts off, bolts on, and running again it
may be genius. I can't imagine the time and effort it would take to
get a saw like that in to a repair center, much less all the time it
would take to set it back up when you got it home. Worse, think what
a house call would cost from an authorized, trained company rep.
The cost of working on your own machines is affordable these days, but
having work done on them is just stupid expensive. I would certainly
be considering that aspect of your purchase since you are one that
will probably wear out bearings.
As a sidebar, I wore out the headstock bearings on my Jet mini (had a
helluva good time doing it!) and they wanted more than half the cost
of the lathe to replace the bearings at our local, authorized, factory
repair center. I talked to the guys at Jet, and the told me how to
get the bearings out myself with a brass punch, and to reseat them
with a tool I made out of wood on the lathe. The cost was two Timken
So for me, like triggers in my saws and drills, chucks for my drills,
and anything else that just wears out, the ability to repair the tool
myself goes a really long way in my consideration of purchase.
Seriously, keep us posted.
On Apr 9, 12:41 pm, "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast
dot net> wrote:
No worries over here, Lee. That was more of a comment on the fact
that << I >> started at the wrong end of the group to start reading.
In my blue collar vernacular that was more of a "well, *nuts* ".
I will be quite fine when Leon posts up his review. Although I have
no place for a saw like that, I made my mind up after using the
SawStop that if I were to buy a new table saw some time in the future,
it would be the SawStop. I am unconcerned with the politics of the
machine as that all happened years and years ago.
And... thanks for your kind remarks!
I look forward to your thoughts and use of the SS Industrial machine.
Seriously, when I used it about a year ago, I was so excited I almost
embarrassed myself. The machine I used was set up by the local
company that sells them, and they did a great job. I immediately set
out trying to figure out how to get one, how much I would use one, and
more importantly, where I would put it.
However, the work I have been doing the last few years has been so
varied, I can't justify one, try as I might. This is an example of
what I am doing now (compare this to the kitchen remodel at the first
of the year, and the deck I just finished). It is a 4000 sq ft
pavilion that I am stripping down and applying a coating from the
Sherwin Williams industrial coatings group.
My work is so varied, I just can't sink that much money into a saw of
that caliber and feel I got the use I needed to out of it. I take the
jobs that come to me, referrals from my customers. I would like to be
in the same position as you and Karl, able to support myself with
custom woodwork, but sadly, *sigh* that isn't my choice.
After the pavillion, I have a roof to replace, a bathroom to remodel,
and possibly a set of built in cabinets to build. I take 'em as the
You can bet though, that if I get the built-ins, I will be at that
SawStop if I can.
Wow! What a painting endeavor! Did you find many bird/bug nests up in
Well I can understand that but there are many jobs I would not have
tackled with out having the higher end equipment. . I am not sure if
that is because I needed to justify the cost or because I had more
confidence that I could do it. I think the later. The results are
simply better from a cabinet saw over a contractor saw, just the power
to cut through any thing you send through is a big plus. My old
craftsman would not pass the dollar bill test, you know the one where
you lay the dollar bill on the table top, turn on the saw, and see of
the bill falls off the table. ;~) The Jet cabinet saw often passed the
nickel test, I saw the SawStop industrial actually pass the "quarter
test". Anyway when you have the equipment you then to attract the
business and or take on the business that you might not otherwise.
I am not saying that I have to have an industrial SawStop over my old
cabinet saw however. My initial and continued feeling was that the
Professional SS was not a move up from my Jet other than the safety
factor. The Pro version would be in the same price range as a PM 2000
or the "new" Unisaw. I already had a cabinet saw that I was satisfied
with and I did not want to spend a bunch more money to just get the
safety feature so I went spent more to take that next step up from the
basic cabinet saw.
I am in a unique situation. From the time I was about 8 years old I
have been very interested in building. My professional career was in
the automotive industry in management and I used woodworking as therapy.
When I retired at 40 I already had a pretty good assortment of tools
which got me on the path to selling my work.
Anyway you have been in the business long enough to know what direction
you want to take and how to make the numbers work out for you.
FWIW I don't do enough business building cabinets and furniture to
actually support myself, rather enough to pay for all the equipment and
have some thick gravy left over to make it all worth while. I don't
always justify a purchase by whether it would pay for itself although it
almost always does. The nice thing about a SawStop is that the instant
you do something to trigger the brake, there is a very good chance that
investment just paid for itself.
While we all do our best to work safely in the shop, you never know what
might happen out of the ordinary. Sometimes we simply get tired and do
something stupid. What prompted me to get the SawStop was Kim. While
building the desk I was cutting some plywood panels to length. I was
using a very questionable procedure but with full knowledge of what
could happen. Long explanation short I got a kick back from the cut in
the 3/4" plywood and knowing that it could very easily happen I was
prepared and was able to hold the piece in place while the blade did its
thing on the bottom side of the panel. Kim about pooped. My blood
pressure stayed the same, I was prepared and not caught off guard, no
big deal, this time. Perhaps what may have lit the light bulb for me
was seeing the guy on YouTube purposely initiate a kick back and holding
the work down with push pads. He videoed and played back in slow motion
the kick back and it scared the heck out of me just watching how close
his came came to the blade as this all happened.
Granted what he did was on purpose but accidents can happen even if you
are not cutting wood and the motor has been turned off but the blade is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7sRrC2Jpp4 At about 2:30 minutes in.
Well it is nice that at the least you have that saw at your disposal.
OK, now that was pretty damn funny. Might be using that in further
discussions with my colleagues!
Well, it evolved. Like you, I started out young building and making
things. My mother still has a recipe box I made for her when I was 11
from old scrap plywood my Dad brought home from a
construction site. I even wood burned "Recipes" on it with my old
wood burning set.
Fast forward, and after a couple of years of training, I started my
first company at 21, doing all woodwork. The fun of my life now
became my job. My weekend hobby was something I did all day long. I
didn't have the money to be a contractor then, so I took all carpentry
work. Hung doors, made cabinets (sometimes a houseful), built decks,
etc. Anything with wood. All day long, 6 - 7 days a week.
As you become more successful, you need to become a better
businessman. Being a better businessman requires a lot of time and
effort, and worrying about the dollars. Then all purchases have to
"make sense". Labor has to "make sense". It becomes a lifestyle for
those that stick with it and all purchases have to "make sense".
With one income, bills to pay, and a company to keep afloat, it is up
to me to support the whole mess. With employees from time to time, it
ratchets that responsibility up even more. To me, work is work at
this point. The custom furniture guys have all gone out of business
here, as have most of the cabinets shops. There are still a couple of
large ones, but even the guys used to use to make my kitchen cabinets
are down to skeleton crews. And not one of those guys does it for
"the love of the craft" and hasn't for years. Like me, they turn out
as good a product as they can to satisfy their own personal pride and
to make sure they get a call back.
If I only did roofing, only did painting and refinishing, only did
remodeling, I wouldn't have a stream of work. I built houses for a
bit, and when the economy turned sour in the 80s, I had nothing to do,
but I did have an office, secretary, superintendent, employees and all
kinds of other overhead. But no houses to build....
I learned then to be flexible, and go where the work was. So the work
determines the direction of my company.
For years, I have told all of my clients to call me when they need
anything. If I don't or can't do what they want, I will refer them to
someone I trust. So I guess it is working in its own way... they seem
to call me for anything. And I keep them in my loop.
On 4/9/2013 10:20 AM, email@example.com wrote:
Well more simple from the stand point of not having to actually R and R
the bearings myself, and I know that this may or may not be a big deal
either, cant tell you how many automotive wheel bearing races and axle
bearings I have r and r'd. This would be new territory for me.
Iiiiiiii am not sure that top removal would be avoided, that may still
have to be done. BUTTTTT
With most any cabinet saw the removal of the table top is not that big
of a deal, it's getting it back in place aligned correctly that becomes
the issue, IMHO.
With the SawStop the reregistration and alignment is much less of a
task. With most cabinet saws the trunnion sets on the cabinet and the
top bolts to the cabinet. With the SawStop the trunnion bolts to the
cabinet but the top indexes in with a front pivot alignment pin on the
trunnion and you swing the back of the table back and forth to align the
blade with the miter slot. The front of the table does not move right
and left, rather it pivots back and forth. And the top bolts to the
trunnion after you have made that alignment.
See a couple of inside pictures of the one I am getting, the industrial
model. Notice the front indexing pin in the middle of the front
trunnion for the table to engage just above the elevation wheel.
If I am
That is the way I understand it. Hopefully it simply bolts on and off
but I would be surprised if the top does not have to come off.
I can't imagine the time and effort it would take to
Well I went with the hydraulic mobile base, 1000lb capacity. The saw
weighs in at 685lbs with 52" fence. So with a lift gate truck, hualing
it some where might not be a big issue.
Thanks, Yeah the mobile base cradles the saw. In normal operating
condition the saw is basically setting on a couple of straps which are
setting on the floor. Give the foot pedal 3~4 pumps and a small bottle
jack lifts the straps up and then the whole thing is riding on 4 swivel
casters. Tap a toe lever and the saw floats down.
The base only picks up the cabinet however the table extension comes up
too. The angle irons that support the fence rail in front and that
support the back of the extension table are about 1/4" thick so this is
all quite rigid. I was concerned about the table sagging when elevated
and unsupported but the SS rep indicated that there would be no sag, the
table extension legs are only there to keep the saw from tipping
should some one lean or sit on the end.
Nice base.. a little pricey.
I don't remember if I mentioned it, my wife's friend's husband cut his
fingers off a few weeks ago. He is a high end auto mechanic, and is
highly regarded in the field.
He was cutting on his table saw at home and kick back took the fingers.
I have always been safe, but you never know. I don't know him personally
nor how much wood working he does. But he is now unable to be a mechanic
while the re-attached fingers heal.
I'm going to have to think about this a little more.. but I am leaning
to biting the bullet for the pro 3hp, now before I regret not having
It doesn't matter how much woodwork he does. Accidents happen, and
that is all there is to it.
Some on this group have expressed their displeasure of using different
safety devices, and I certainly wouldn't deprive them of using their
nose as a push stick when using their table saw if they wanted to. I
have no concern for them.
But for me, I always think of how fast I have seen industrial
accidents happen... fingers removed, an arm torn out of the socket, an
asphalt compactor catch the edge of a pant leg and squish the leg out
of the pants leg, scaffold collapses (one on top of me with cinder
blocks and masons in tow), drill bits run through hands, sudden
electrical shorts in tool handles, nailgun misfires, and on and on...
it always makes me think of how little control we have of our
Getting hurt and sometimes permanently damaged is just part of the
package when you are a full time construction worker. And the reason
I said it doesn't matter is that fact that I have seen many a home
hobby or craftsman use tools in a <<much>> safer way than
"professionals" do. So back to the "it doesn't matter" premise. That
guy may have been the picture of shop safety, and he lost his fingers
So if there something you could do to avoid a catastrophe, I am all
Get the 3 hp. When you are cutting with it, it sounds like you are in
a flying saucer, and the actual cutting is so smooth you may think the
saw isn't doing anything.
On 4/9/2013 11:36 PM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
I'll second Roberts recommendation on the 3hp model. That is going to
require you to at least get the Professional model. The SawStop in not
inexpensive, you might as well buy then one that will be your last TS if
you do buy one. And get a WWII full kerf blade too if you don't have
FWIW I probably use my TS more than the average user and have never
wanted for more than 3hp. Go for more HP if you think you will be using
a power feeder all day long and might actually wear a 3hp motor out, not
because you think you will need more than 3hp. With 3hp I have resawn
Ipe, 2.5 times harder than oak, with the blade fully up and burried
inside the edge of that 1x6 board. No problem.
FWIW I cut half my left thumb off 24 years ago with a TS. I had
completed the cut and turned the motor off but got in a hurry to remove
the rip fence before the dado blade coasted to a stop. I never realized
how it happened until it almost happened again about 1 year later. I
had always thought it was a kick back although after coming back from
the hospital I found my completed stack of wood so that was not a
possibility. A year later I felt the wind of the saw blade as I made
that dumb move again. Thank goodness I only had half of a thumb this
There are simply not enough safety rules to cover every type situation
and on top of that we being humans we are subject to making mistakes.
I can tell you that you wife's friends husband will have "EXTREME"
sensitivity in those fingers for a very long time. Nerves are no longer
in their natural location and you have to become accustomed to the way
Well if you can afford it it is a nice insurance policy.
There is a guy that tells about his experience of cutting his fingers,
he says that if you cannot afford to loose a finger, you can afford a
Concerning that, the full mobile base for my old 50" Jet cabinet saw was
$200, a hundred dollars less, 13 years ago.
The industrial SS requires a mobile bade that will handle a 685 lb saw.
My old base probably would not have held up under that kind of weight.
That said, through the end of this month SawStop will include the
Professional version mobile bade with the purchase of a Professional SS.
This is not the same mobile base as I am getting but does pick the saw
up and set it down. IIRC it is a $200 base. Or you can opt for a blade
guard with dust collection instead.
Yea I see that. I don't have a dust collector, merely a vac hooked up to
every tool. I simply sucks the dirt that drops into it. Does a pretty
good job on the router, and jointer. ok on the bandsaw not so great on
the ts until the whole bottom creates a funnel.
Don't know how that would affect the SS. But I am now getting serious...
I don't have to be stupid.
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