SawStop arbor Bearings

[Leon]

The Unisaw arbor bearing thread got me to thinking about the SawStop. I am considering the purchase of a SawStop and naturally I was wondering how the repair/replacement of the arbor bearings would be handled under warranty and or after warranty. I have heard nothing but good thing about the SawStop and the service that SawStop provides.

Speaking with the SawStop rep a few minutes ago I inquired about this possible situation of having to replaced the arbor bearings. He indicated that because of the way the SawStop is constructed and the fact that the arbor assembly drops down below the table during a brake activation that the assembly is not "fixed" so to speak. It is relatively easily removed as a unit and is replaced as a unit. SawStop keeps exchange units on hand for this purpose. After warranty he indicated that they charge a very reasonable price for the exchange, charging only for the bearings that are being replaced.

Now while reasonable cost is relative, it is nice to know that this service is being provided and that there would be no question as to how best to remove, replace, and or position the new bearings.

[Lee Michaels]

That is interesting and obviously a good service.

I am wondering just how many other saw makers offer similar service. I guess if you go high end enough, this kind of thing may be common place. But I have never seen it or heard of it. And I have crawled around under a table saw a few times to fix/align something. And most guys I know who have a shop are "fixers" and do their own repairs. But the above mentioned service is a good thing.

The other thing I find interesting is that the whole arbor assembly drops down. It is movable. I never thought about how it actually worked. But it makes perfect sense. Think about it. If the sawing part of the saw is movable, then it has to maintain perfect alignment while being able to be stopped instantly and dumped beneath the surface. The sawing and stopping are two diametrically opposed kinds of action. That is a tidy bit of engineering there. And the parts involved would have to be heavy enough and precision enough to perform this "grabbing and dropping" function. And still saw too.

I know that Gass is an overbearing asshole. But that saw is a very good piece of technology. And if he is offering this kind of service to back up this technology, then that is a good thing. Even if he isn't.

[Leon]

I never gave it much thought, the after the warranty service part, until I visited the Hammer/Felder site. They have their own crew that goes out and does delivery, maintenance, etc. I am sure that comes at a relative price. I have replaced the motor on my old Jet cabinet saw, 13 years ago and replaced the start capacitor on the same motor. I can do it, but I would rather some one else do it these days. All of that stuff is heavy and too close to the floor and tucked inside of a box. ;!)

Well I have noticed that the SawStop trunnion/innerworkings are much more like the style that the Euro saws have, like the Laguna, Hammer, Felder, etc. The American style saws trunnions move the blade up and down on a pivot in a slight arc. The SawStop and Euro saws move the blade/motor/arbor assembly straight up and down on relative large steel dowels, the front "dowel" on the industrial SawStop appears to be over

1.5" diameter

I never thought about how it actually

[nailshooter41]

This is all very interesting Leon, and I hope you keep us all up on your discoveries. I am like Lee on this, impressed by that simple feat of engineering that could make changing the bearing so simple.

Many years ago a friend of mine had a cabinet shop, and their main saw that was on all day long was an old Delta 12" industrial model. When they needed bearings in that saw, it was a three day event. Finally, they had a factory trained guy come out with a helper and they got it down to one full day. They remove the top, take it apart as far as they needed to, then took the fittings with the bearings in them back to their shop to press the old ones out and press the new ones in. Then back out on site after lunch, install the parts, then spend another hour getting the top back on and to 100% true. Back in the this was a bit over $300.

So the idea of simply taking out the necessary component to replace an arbor assembly without removing the top seems almost genius. If I am reading your post right, the new/replacement assembly comes with the bearings in it, so if it is bolts off, bolts on, and running again it may be genius. I can't imagine the time and effort it would take to get a saw like that in to a repair center, much less all the time it would take to set it back up when you got it home. Worse, think what a house call would cost from an authorized, trained company rep. Yikes!!

The cost of working on your own machines is affordable these days, but having work done on them is just stupid expensive. I would certainly be considering that aspect of your purchase since you are one that will probably wear out bearings.

As a sidebar, I wore out the headstock bearings on my Jet mini (had a helluva good time doing it!) and they wanted more than half the cost of the lathe to replace the bearings at our local, authorized, factory repair center. I talked to the guys at Jet, and the told me how to get the bearings out myself with a brass punch, and to reseat them with a tool I made out of wood on the lathe. The cost was two Timken bearings... about $12.

So for me, like triggers in my saws and drills, chucks for my drills, and anything else that just wears out, the ability to repair the tool myself goes a really long way in my consideration of purchase.

Seriously, keep us posted.

Robert

[nailshooter41]

Well...

Scratch all that shit, eh?

Saw you purchased already on another thread.

Could I change my request to "let us know what you think"?

Robert

[Lee Michaels]

Lighten up Robert. Your contributions are always appreciated. I enjoyed your perspective and remarks.

[Leon]

Well more simple from the stand point of not having to actually R and R the bearings myself, and I know that this may or may not be a big deal either, cant tell you how many automotive wheel bearing races and axle bearings I have r and r'd. This would be new territory for me.

Iiiiiiii am not sure that top removal would be avoided, that may still have to be done. BUTTTTT

With most any cabinet saw the removal of the table top is not that big of a deal, it's getting it back in place aligned correctly that becomes the issue, IMHO.

With the SawStop the reregistration and alignment is much less of a task. With most cabinet saws the trunnion sets on the cabinet and the top bolts to the cabinet. With the SawStop the trunnion bolts to the cabinet but the top indexes in with a front pivot alignment pin on the trunnion and you swing the back of the table back and forth to align the blade with the miter slot. The front of the table does not move right and left, rather it pivots back and forth. And the top bolts to the trunnion after you have made that alignment.

See a couple of inside pictures of the one I am getting, the industrial model. Notice the front indexing pin in the middle of the front trunnion for the table to engage just above the elevation wheel.

If I am

That is the way I understand it. Hopefully it simply bolts on and off but I would be surprised if the top does not have to come off.

I can't imagine the time and effort it would take to

Well I went with the hydraulic mobile base, 1000lb capacity. The saw weighs in at 685lbs with 52" fence. So with a lift gate truck, hualing it some where might not be a big issue.

I would certainly

Jeez I hope not! LOL

Ill do that.

[Leon]

I'll keep us posted.

[woodchucker]

Congratulations , good purchase... Hydraulic mobile base????

[nailshooter41]

No worries over here, Lee. That was more of a comment on the fact that > started at the wrong end of the group to start reading. In my blue collar vernacular that was more of a "well, *nuts* ".

I will be quite fine when Leon posts up his review. Although I have no place for a saw like that, I made my mind up after using the SawStop that if I were to buy a new table saw some time in the future, it would be the SawStop. I am unconcerned with the politics of the machine as that all happened years and years ago.

And... thanks for your kind remarks!

Robert

[Leon]

Thanks, Yeah the mobile base cradles the saw. In normal operating condition the saw is basically setting on a couple of straps which are setting on the floor. Give the foot pedal 3~4 pumps and a small bottle jack lifts the straps up and then the whole thing is riding on 4 swivel casters. Tap a toe lever and the saw floats down.

The base only picks up the cabinet however the table extension comes up too. The angle irons that support the fence rail in front and that support the back of the extension table are about 1/4" thick so this is all quite rigid. I was concerned about the table sagging when elevated and unsupported but the SS rep indicated that there would be no sag, the table extension legs are only there to keep the saw from tipping should some one lean or sit on the end.

Anyway,

[nailshooter41]

I look forward to your thoughts and use of the SS Industrial machine. Seriously, when I used it about a year ago, I was so excited I almost embarrassed myself. The machine I used was set up by the local company that sells them, and they did a great job. I immediately set out trying to figure out how to get one, how much I would use one, and more importantly, where I would put it.

However, the work I have been doing the last few years has been so varied, I can't justify one, try as I might. This is an example of what I am doing now (compare this to the kitchen remodel at the first of the year, and the deck I just finished). It is a 4000 sq ft pavilion that I am stripping down and applying a coating from the Sherwin Williams industrial coatings group.

My work is so varied, I just can't sink that much money into a saw of that caliber and feel I got the use I needed to out of it. I take the jobs that come to me, referrals from my customers. I would like to be in the same position as you and Karl, able to support myself with custom woodwork, but sadly, *sigh* that isn't my choice.

After the pavillion, I have a roof to replace, a bathroom to remodel, and possibly a set of built in cabinets to build. I take 'em as the come.

You can bet though, that if I get the built-ins, I will be at that SawStop if I can.

Robert

[woodchucker]

Nice base.. a little pricey.

I don't remember if I mentioned it, my wife's friend's husband cut his fingers off a few weeks ago. He is a high end auto mechanic, and is highly regarded in the field. He was cutting on his table saw at home and kick back took the fingers.

I have always been safe, but you never know. I don't know him personally nor how much wood working he does. But he is now unable to be a mechanic while the re-attached fingers heal.

I'm going to have to think about this a little more.. but I am leaning to biting the bullet for the pro 3hp, now before I regret not having bought it.

[nailshooter41]

It doesn't matter how much woodwork he does. Accidents happen, and that is all there is to it.

Some on this group have expressed their displeasure of using different safety devices, and I certainly wouldn't deprive them of using their nose as a push stick when using their table saw if they wanted to. I have no concern for them.

But for me, I always think of how fast I have seen industrial accidents happen... fingers removed, an arm torn out of the socket, an asphalt compactor catch the edge of a pant leg and squish the leg out of the pants leg, scaffold collapses (one on top of me with cinder blocks and masons in tow), drill bits run through hands, sudden electrical shorts in tool handles, nailgun misfires, and on and on... it always makes me think of how little control we have of our circumstances sometimes.

Getting hurt and sometimes permanently damaged is just part of the package when you are a full time construction worker. And the reason I said it doesn't matter is that fact that I have seen many a home hobby or craftsman use tools in a safer way than "professionals" do. So back to the "it doesn't matter" premise. That guy may have been the picture of shop safety, and he lost his fingers anyway.

So if there something you could do to avoid a catastrophe, I am all for it.

Get the 3 hp. When you are cutting with it, it sounds like you are in a flying saucer, and the actual cutting is so smooth you may think the saw isn't doing anything.

Robert

[Leon]

I will probably do a follow up on the experience along with a comparison to my old cabinet saw.

Wow! What a painting endeavor! Did you find many bird/bug nests up in that structure?

Well I can understand that but there are many jobs I would not have tackled with out having the higher end equipment. . I am not sure if that is because I needed to justify the cost or because I had more confidence that I could do it. I think the later. The results are simply better from a cabinet saw over a contractor saw, just the power to cut through any thing you send through is a big plus. My old craftsman would not pass the dollar bill test, you know the one where you lay the dollar bill on the table top, turn on the saw, and see of the bill falls off the table. ;~) The Jet cabinet saw often passed the nickel test, I saw the SawStop industrial actually pass the "quarter test". Anyway when you have the equipment you then to attract the business and or take on the business that you might not otherwise.

I am not saying that I have to have an industrial SawStop over my old cabinet saw however. My initial and continued feeling was that the Professional SS was not a move up from my Jet other than the safety factor. The Pro version would be in the same price range as a PM 2000 or the "new" Unisaw. I already had a cabinet saw that I was satisfied with and I did not want to spend a bunch more money to just get the safety feature so I went spent more to take that next step up from the basic cabinet saw.

I am in a unique situation. From the time I was about 8 years old I have been very interested in building. My professional career was in the automotive industry in management and I used woodworking as therapy. When I retired at 40 I already had a pretty good assortment of tools which got me on the path to selling my work.

Anyway you have been in the business long enough to know what direction you want to take and how to make the numbers work out for you.

FWIW I don't do enough business building cabinets and furniture to actually support myself, rather enough to pay for all the equipment and have some thick gravy left over to make it all worth while. I don't always justify a purchase by whether it would pay for itself although it almost always does. The nice thing about a SawStop is that the instant you do something to trigger the brake, there is a very good chance that investment just paid for itself.

While we all do our best to work safely in the shop, you never know what might happen out of the ordinary. Sometimes we simply get tired and do something stupid. What prompted me to get the SawStop was Kim. While building the desk I was cutting some plywood panels to length. I was using a very questionable procedure but with full knowledge of what could happen. Long explanation short I got a kick back from the cut in the 3/4" plywood and knowing that it could very easily happen I was prepared and was able to hold the piece in place while the blade did its thing on the bottom side of the panel. Kim about pooped. My blood pressure stayed the same, I was prepared and not caught off guard, no big deal, this time. Perhaps what may have lit the light bulb for me was seeing the guy on YouTube purposely initiate a kick back and holding the work down with push pads. He videoed and played back in slow motion the kick back and it scared the heck out of me just watching how close his came came to the blade as this all happened.

Granted what he did was on purpose but accidents can happen even if you are not cutting wood and the motor has been turned off but the blade is still spinning.

At about 2:30 minutes in.

Well it is nice that at the least you have that saw at your disposal.

Good Luck!

[Leon]

FWIW I cut half my left thumb off 24 years ago with a TS. I had completed the cut and turned the motor off but got in a hurry to remove the rip fence before the dado blade coasted to a stop. I never realized how it happened until it almost happened again about 1 year later. I had always thought it was a kick back although after coming back from the hospital I found my completed stack of wood so that was not a possibility. A year later I felt the wind of the saw blade as I made that dumb move again. Thank goodness I only had half of a thumb this time. ;~)

There are simply not enough safety rules to cover every type situation and on top of that we being humans we are subject to making mistakes.

I can tell you that you wife's friends husband will have "EXTREME" sensitivity in those fingers for a very long time. Nerves are no longer in their natural location and you have to become accustomed to the way things feel.

Tragic

Well if you can afford it it is a nice insurance policy.

There is a guy that tells about his experience of cutting his fingers, he says that if you cannot afford to loose a finger, you can afford a SawStop.

[Leon]

I'll second Roberts recommendation on the 3hp model. That is going to require you to at least get the Professional model. The SawStop in not inexpensive, you might as well buy then one that will be your last TS if you do buy one. And get a WWII full kerf blade too if you don't have one. ;!)

FWIW I probably use my TS more than the average user and have never wanted for more than 3hp. Go for more HP if you think you will be using a power feeder all day long and might actually wear a 3hp motor out, not because you think you will need more than 3hp. With 3hp I have resawn Ipe, 2.5 times harder than oak, with the blade fully up and burried inside the edge of that 1x6 board. No problem.

[Leon]

Concerning that, the full mobile base for my old 50" Jet cabinet saw was $200, a hundred dollars less, 13 years ago.

The industrial SS requires a mobile bade that will handle a 685 lb saw. My old base probably would not have held up under that kind of weight.

That said, through the end of this month SawStop will include the Professional version mobile bade with the purchase of a Professional SS. This is not the same mobile base as I am getting but does pick the saw up and set it down. IIRC it is a $200 base. Or you can opt for a blade guard with dust collection instead.

[Keith Nuttle]

I did not cut my fingers off, but last Thanksgiving I had a run in with my table saw. It abraded my index finger, and cut the flesh half off of my ring finger. They stitched the end back on.

Point being it has been nearly six months and while I can use all of my fingers, I can not put pressure on the end of the finger. That means while I can use my table saw, any thing (hand sanding, car waxing, etc.) where you put pressure on your finger tips is difficult, and if enough pressure painfull

It may be a long time be for he can do normal things with his fingers.

[Leon]

Yup! Once you get home after being all stitched back up it still takes quite a long time to get back to "what will be" normal with out pain and hyper sensitivity.