Ping Leon...What's Swingman Up To?

[Leon]

I am normally not into the Chinese copy cat products but Woodpeckers is coming out with stuff that a relatively experienced wood worker easily and immediately finds problems with.

The new miter sled cannot be used with a conventional sacrificial fence. It does afford you the ability to set a distance to cut and supposedly be able to change the angle of cut and the length remain the same. That is the big innovation. But I do not see any real value with that. How often do you change the angle and want to cut the exact same distance??? If you are cutting a molding to go around a 4"x4" square box, you cut 45 degrees at X length. If that 4" x 4" box becomes

5,6,7. or more sided the length has to change. The Woodpecker sled is a solution to what is not a problem.

And now Woodpeckers has copied the Dubby sled that has been around for decades. They apparently found that their sled was not going to sell with out a sacrificial fence of some sort. They copied the Dubby sacrificial fence extension.

And now the woodpecker fence is worthy but at more than double, close to triple the price of a Dubby. $499 for 1 and $999 for left and right. Dubby $199 for 1 and $349 for left and right.

I am all for buying American manufactured products, on some things, but paying triple for virtually the same thing, no.

[krw]

Dubby isn't Chinese, either. IIRC, it's a small, shop. I'd put Dubby above Woodpeckers, on that scale. I have the right one. Peachtree didn't have the left or the combination when I was there. AIUI, Dubby stopped making them for a while.

Right. The triple doesn't even bother me all that much as long as there is some redeeming value. I have the Woodpeckers track-saw parallel guide. It works very well (better than the Festool, IMO) and is well made (better than the Festool, IMO). The Woodpeckers is just under $400, while the Banggood is just above $100. They look identical, again, right down to the color.

Even more surprising, the Festool parallel guide is $375.

Then there is this:

and

With carbide blades.

[Leon]

I think In-Line industries ran out of materials. IIRC I got an email from them last year some time stating that they how had such and such back in stock. I bought the left and right in 2000, IIRC. Then in

2013 when I bought the SawStop I had to replace one of the basses on one side.

Anyway I have always bought direct from In-Line.

YES!! The Woodpecker parallel guides are much better than the Festool guides. I don't know this from experience but the Festool guides are a RPIA to install and adjust. I have had the Festool guides since 2010. Swingman and I did a major kitchen rehab and he got a set for both of us. I can count on one hand how many times I have used them. Since the Festool tracks pretty much stay put I only use the Wood-peckers pro story sticks to set up the tracks.

Yes, I would not own a set if they had not been built into the cost of the kitchen job.

Yeah! I suppose that Woodpeckers could blame the price difference to recoup R&D. I doubt Bang Good is doing much of that. ;~) BUT Woodpeckers "New" tools don't seem to be well though out either.

I do like the Exact 90 miter gauge however. The flip stop could be better but I actually used the "Flop Stop" on that miter gauge on my last job. I needed to cut a panel 23" wide by 27" long and the miter gauge was extended about a foot out in front of the saw table. Everything was solid and no play when I walked away to take a picture. The miter fence did not tilt down nor catch on the saw top as it passed over the front edge of the saw table.

I am wondering when Woodpeckers will offer a $700 set of commonly used attachable jigs for commonly cut angles to use with the Exact 90. I guess the new sleds are the answer for other than 90 degree miter cuts.

[Leon]

this is funny, Banggood is already offering this. IIRC Woodpeckers came out with this in the last week or two.

Have you seen this guy? He reviews the Banggood products.

This guy looks good too.

And apparently there is Aliexpress vs Banggood.

[krw]

I saw that (both the tool and the Banggood). I rarely do anything other than a '90 on the bench (much more often on the table saw). I don't see a big use for it. I use the 32" Woodpecker square for aligning the track saw. I looked at the adjustable track squares but it's way too expensive for my use. I bought the Festool version years ago and just haven't used it. It's a POS and if I'd used it often, I would have bought one of the Woodpecker style squares (though likely not the Woodpeckers).

I saw that one.

Interesting. I thought the comments about shipping was funny as hell. Banggood shipping, even un the US is free. Woodpeckers has outrageous shipping charges in the US too. Many times I've left things in my shopping cart because the shipping charges were way too high. Not worth it. They have some decent prices on wood every once in a while but shipping makes it ridiculous.

I've never liked Aliexpress. I don't remember what it was but I ordered something that had a good price. What I received was a bolt. Since it (something) was received, Aliexpress washed their hands of the whole thing. I haven't used Aliexpress since. Maybe Xi Jinping ordered something from Aliexpress (Jack Ma has been disappeared for a couple of years). ;-)

I've seen the pricing fraud he's talking about, on Amazon too (showing one item and selling the knock-off). In one case the difference is huge. For example, the Viking arm goes for $200 to $240. The useless knockoff goes for $30-$40 on Amazon but the picture is of a Viking arm. Amazon sells the legitimate Viking through a legitimate dealer for $200.

[krw]

They didn't have any with no expectation of shipping dates. The implication was that they were no longer selling them. I saw the right-side version at Peachtree shortly after and bought it.

That sounds like a PITA too. You ought to pick up one of these. They're very nice and easy to set up.

Did you notice the Festool mechanics tool set? Greasy fingerprints are going to look great on the putty systainer. ;-)

Not seeing the Woodpeckers version personally, I think the Banggood is a better tool. The Banggood has four carbide cutting edges (rotate, like other carbide cutters) for each a rounded-over and chamfer edge. The Woodpeckers sells the steel cutters. Give away the razors, sell the blades, except that they're not giving away the razors.

[Leon]

The story sticks have a plastic stop/extension/marking spot. I place its stops, at both ends where I want it and make a pencil mark or slide the rail up tot eh plastic tab.

My issue with the "two" indexing stops on the Festool and the alternatives is that they are both adjusted separately and do not lock in at any exact point. One side could be on side of the incremental mark and the other side could be closer to the opposite side of the incremental mark. I only use one adjustment for the stop with the story stick and the stop tabs protrude on both sides of the stick so the marks are precisely in the same spot for both sides.

Now I will admit that is is some what being anal but if the double extension stops on the Festool or the alternatives are not properly calibrated after putting them on and off multiple times the scales could be off too.

And probably my biggest problem with this type of set up is a long, long enough to rip a 8' long sheet of plywood, is enough of a PIA by itself. Adding a stop guide to both ends makes it more problematic for me. The set up needs more room when moving it out of the way to set up for the next sheet. Just my experience and how I handle the sheets.

No doubt the woodpecker "style" is superior to the Festool as far as attachment goes.

The way I do it, with out guides, is quick and for me accurate enough.

Quicker still........ No guides at all and only mark one side of the panel and then use a square to hold the track perpendicular to the edge at the single mark.

Yes the squares are pricey themselves but.....

This idea but instead use a piece of square cut plywood the size of Festool Multi Routing jig in the video and a fence attached on the bottom edge like in the video.

With about $25 worth of plywood and a hardwood strip to index against the sheet as a fence and you are good to go.

[Clare Snyder]

The reason the BangGood stuff looks identical to the high end brand name stuff is the high enf brand name stuff is either "made in China" or "Made in the USA of world sourced(read that as Chinese) parts. The chinese will make 10,000 for their american customer and another

10,000 to sell for pennies on the dollar, world-wide, under a "chinese knock-off" brand. First hand experience with computer cases - we paid for ther design work and the mouls for the plastic - the whole works - and before we got our first full shipment they were advertised in "Asian Sources Computer" magazine for about 10 cents on the dollar what we were paying ---- Made on OUR MOLDS. Banditos aren't just Mexican!!!!

[krw]

Woodpeckers are all made in the US (Ohio, specifically). The extrusions likely do come from China but the design and all of the machining is done in the US. Undoubtedly that's why they're expensive (that and a nice profit - marketing).

[krw]

Use a block to measure the spacing on the first cut. Copy forever.

I haven't had that problem. They worked great.

Wanna buy a festool, cheap?

I don't like an 8' square. Too much chance for error, particularly with a small baseline.

Red has a version:

[krw]

I looked at this closer and it's not the five-side test at all. The error doesn't add, as it would with a single square. It's really four individual squares, which defeats the whole idea.

[Leon]

But in all seriousness it is probably square enough.

[krw]

Probably true for woodworking (a square is good enough) but the exercise isn't useful. Measuring the strip with calipers and inferring back to angles isn't valid. The geometry doesn't work.

[Puckdropper]

DerbyDad03 [e-mail] wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Mathematically speaking, just keep cutting. The length will eventually go negative, which means if you keep cutting the board will eventually get longer.

OL - Cut = NL OL=Original Length Cut=Cut off length NL=New Length

Therefore OL - -Cut = NL OL + Cut = NL

You can see from the multi-letter variable names that I'm a computer scientist and not a mathematician, but it all makes sense to me!

Puckdropper

[DerbyDad03]

You know the old riddle about walking halfway across the room and then halfway from there, etc.? Supposedly you will never reach the opposite side.

So why did the egg that I dropped make such a mess?

At one point it was halfway to the floor. Then it was halfway from there. Then half again. How did it ever reach the floor?

[Scott Lurndal]

Also known as Zeno's Dichotomy paradox.

"As one begins adding the terms in the series 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + 1/16 + 1/32 + 1/64 + ...., one may notice that the sum gets closer and closer to 1, and will never exceed 1. Aristotle (who is the source for much of what we know about Zeno) noted that as the distance (in the dichotomy paradox) decreases, the time to travel each distance gets exceedingly smaller and smaller. Before 212 BC, Archimedes had developed a method to get a finite answer for the sum of infinitely many terms which get progressively smaller (such as 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + 1/16 + 1/32 + ...). Modern calculus achieves the same result, using more rigorous methods."

- wikipedia

[krw]

A man and a woman at the opposite ends of the bench move half way... Sooner or later, it's close enough.

The center of gravity fell half-way to the floor. The egg has a finite size. Only one side hit the floor.

[DerbyDad03]

If you can rephrase, then I can rephrase, without either of us changing the actual physical situation:

At one point the side facing the floor was halfway to the floor. Then it was halfway from there. Then half again. How did that side ever reach the floor?

[10x]

On Jun 19, 2022, [e-mail] wrote (in article [e-mail]):

Any chance of changing the subject line on this thread?

We’ve really moved a LONG way from “What’s Swingman Up To?”

Just curious...

Joe aka 10x

[DerbyDad03]

We already know what Swingman is up to. If that's why you keep checking the thread, I submit that it is no longer necessary to continue doing so.

Just ignore us. Since I'm such a nice guy, if there actually is a Swingman update, I'll ping you.