On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 22:32:17 GMT, the inscrutable "World Traveler"
Poor Doug probably thinks Global Warming is real, the War on Drugs is
doing some good, DDT and silicone implants were killers, low-fat diets
were safe, bullets should be serialized for ID, cholesterol from eggs
will kill you, O.J. and Jackson are innocent, the war in Iraq is
necessary, and, um, that the DHS is making America SAFE! <sigh>
I've seen more stories (and video) on happy Chinese workers than I
have on prison labor tactics.
--== May The Angst Be With You! ==--
-Yoda, on a bad day
http://diversify.com Ending Your Web Page Angst.
No, no, no, yes, no, maybe, no, too early to tell, and probably not.
And in the mid-1800s there were a lot of stories about the happy slaves on
Southern plantations, too. Do you believe everything you see?
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
You think that some CEO oughta be able to inflate his salary by cutting
the salaries of US workers?
How many days a week do you work? Unions fought for health coverage on
teh job, workplace health and safety laws, wage and hour laws, Social
Secutiry, etc. You wouldn't have the protections you have - or your
fingers, eyes, toes, and other body parts - if not for unions!
this is also true
I have to say, high union labor is running more jobs off to over
It aint rocket science to build a nail gun and yet the
Well; living wage plays a part here. It cost a lot more to live here
than it does there. lets not forget that! And ummm... do ya think that
300 dollar nail gun is gonna get any cheeper just because pasload gets
it built cheeper in china? I think not.
More likely upper management will get a great big attaboy and a raise
for being so wise with our jobs and stock holders will see a larger
profit from their investment. meanwhile joe blue collar gets to look
for his next job. probly for less money and fewer benefites. gee son
sorry bout your college education fund but some chinaman needs that
money more than we do. unfortunatly the more jobs that are lost by
this practice the less money that will be spent to buy product and
sooner or later this buisness practice will bite us on the ass.
So you're saying that factory workers in China should be paid enough to live
in a mansion with servants just to keep wages equal with the US? If not
then what are you suggesting?
Until China has a competitive well established industrial base and is
bringing in large amounts of foreign trade, wages will remain low. They
were low in Japan after WWII, but as Japanese products found new markets
and the Japanese economy grew, wages rose in proportion. So did prices.
When that happened the Japanese started moving production to other
countries where labor costs were lower. Now some of those countries have
labor costs rivalling those of Japan and the US. Eventually China will get
there too and production will move to such places as Rwanda.
If the American worker building that gun would sell work for the same price
as a Chinese worker then that American worker would starve to death and
cease to be productive.
I see. So to what do you attribute high labor costs in Japan? Are they
also paying their workers more than their work is worth?
Simple fact, an hour of work has no _intrinsic_ value. It's value is what
someone will pay for it. If the most anybody will pay for it is a dime
then that's what it's worth. If they'll pay a million dollars then that's
what it's worth. Where there is a high demand for workers wages will be
high. Where there is a low demand for workers, wages will be low. China
has a labor force 5 times that of the US and a GDP about half as large, so
there is little demand for workers IN CHINA.
I think you need to study a little bit of basic economics.
anything i have ever seen that says made in china looked and felt
zackaly ! [ zacaly like shit ! ] there may be some good stuff comming
from china but blue collar joe aint sein it so far as i can tell.
JMHO. But japan got that same rep some years back also and today they
make some real nice stuff so change is likely to come for the better.
that may be but if everyone in this country gave back a % of their
salery we would all
would starve to death before the drop in prices could occur.
while i agree with this we all must take a good long look into the
past when this country was coming of age in industry.
I dont know how all this stuff is going to get fixed but i do know if
it doesn't get fixed our children and grandchildren are gonna be i
hurt status. I'm not sure ther is one simple fix but we don't seem to
be doing anything!! THATS SCARY !!
BTW i am posting pics of my newest and most specialist gloat over in
ABPW. only took 5 or 6 weeks for someone to send a pic but i got it
today on my b-day and I AN TICKLED PINK !!! take a look. be up in 5.
They made some real nice stuff years ago too but the American importers that
went there were not looking to buy that. They wanted cheap that they could
maximize profits with. If American importers were to buy quality Chinese
made products, bring them here and expect to sell them at their typical huge
markup, they wouldn't sell. If the buying public looks at two identical
products, one is $100.00, the other is $95.00 and the $95.00 is made in
China, which one are they going to buy? Everybody thinks all things made in
china are junk. The only advantage to buying Chinese is buying junk. If you
want quality, you might as well buy American, German, English, ect.
Well, I might as well wade in.
I am not a big HF fan but I occasionally buy small tools from them. However
I bought a $99 mortiser from them several years ago - mainly on a whim.
Surprise - It cut's square holes well and the chisels have taken several
sharpenings quite well. The hold-down mechanism sucked but I have worked
around that with some mods and clamps. Probably won't be my last mortiser
but it fills the bill for now.
Also, an aquaintance entered the trim carpentry a couple of years ago after
being laid off from the aircraft industry. Starting on a shoestring, he
purchased HF brad and finish nailers - both for about $100. Figured they
would get him going until he could afford better. His only complaint after
two years is they won't wear out and he takes a lot of crap from his peers.
(A few of whom now own HF nailers as "back ups".)
Anyone can build crap and unfortuanately we are seeing quite a bit of it
coming from "domestic manufacturers". Anyone compared a 30 year old Unisaw
with a new one lately? It ain't crap but it isn't what it used to be - just
3-4 times the price. That is why products like the Grizzly 1023 series saws
are so popular.
well with all the fus, i've been a paslode person for about 8 or 9 years
now and have 3 guns and i will only buy a paslode gun for its quality as
they have aways been rated a good gun.
as far as i know from about 9 years ago there was one model i was told
to stay away from and i got that info from a person who worked in the
main office and they did have some problems with that model, however
with a inside person telling me that up front i knew what i was looking
for and i thank that person yet today.
so there's only one name for me and thats PASLODE........say what you
wish about them but here's my 2 cents worth.
Not necessarily. Back when "made in Japan" meant junk, I lived in Japan. I
was amazed at the quality of the products you could buy there, every bit as
good as anything made anywhere. Technology that was available to the
consumer was far higher there than in the US. The reason for the cheap,
poorly made junk coming out of China is that is what they (American
importers) are buying. They are going there for low end junk that they can
sell here at a great profit. If they wanted, they could buy excellent
quality products but, of course, they would be higher priced and not as
profitable. Don't think made in China parts are going to destroy the
company. If the quality goes down because of it, blame the company, not the
Chinese (there's lots of other things to blame them for).
<A Concerned Woodworker> wrote in message
Oh well, another
One of the biggest problems with China right now is that the Chinese
government is artificially suppressing the value of their money in order to
flood the world with Chinese products and force everyone else out of the
market. This is not highly publicized but is well known to (our) government.
They are threatening trade sanctions if this doesn't cease. The Chinese, of
course, are claiming that the big, bad US is just being mean. Listen to
Chinese radio to hear them whine about it. If their currency was allowed to
inflate naturally (as it would), there would come a time when Chinese
production would loose a lot of it's appeal to American importers, just as
happened with Japan, and to a lesser extent, Taiwan.
If I remember correctly several SE Asian countries did let their currencies
float back in the 80s (Korea?Thailand?) rather than pegging them to the
dollar. Result? Collapse. Not all that good of an idea for the country.
Now, IF they (China) can develop to the point where there is some faith in
its economy, a floating exchange could be good. This assumes that the
government is willing to change. Perhaps this will be the case in another
This is how rumors start, isn't it?! Your information is inaccurate
an untrue. I know for a fact that the majority (80%+) of the parts
are made in the U.S. and the ALL the Impulse and almost all
air guns are still assembled in the U.S. Quality is top priority
there and they test every little component that is in those guns.
How many other brands can even come close to doing that?
By the way, didn't they just lower their prices last year?!! I don't
think you can beat their quality and power with any other brand!
I also know that they make their nails here in the U.S. too. Check
your labels boys & girls, I bet their one of the last ones that
I will never give up my Paslode tools and will always support them,
becuase I trust their experience and performance!
Well, just to let you guys know, I have been made aware of a very
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