Paging Leon and Other Domino Users!

The more tenon joinery I do the more I realize how tedious it all is and how long it takes to set up and actually construct the joints. I mean, from a woodworker's standpoint, the process is rewarding and even therapeutic. That's part of the enjoyment we get from woodworking, right? But as a businessman, I'm not interested "enjoying the journey." I want to enjoy the paycheck. Time is money and I don't want to waste either when doing client work.
On my latest project I used a doweling jig that is *supposed* to center the holes perfectly on the stock. However, no matter how careful I am with it, it never seems to end up with two boards perfectly aligned to one another. I always end up planing or sanding the get a perfectly flush seem.
The question I need answered before I ever consider forking over a $GRAND$ for a uni-tasking tenon cutter is, are the results perfect? Does it result in perfectly flush alignment every time? Or is it still a little wonky and you end us doing some sanding to make the joints flush?
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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On 5/1/2018 10:54 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

Exactly

Are results perfect? Probably not perfect, but better than any method I have used in the past. The Domino basically works like a plate joiner/biscuit cutter. BUT the Domino is built to last and much more exacting standards.
Because the machine is portable it will depend on you if you use the correct technique to cut mortises. Like anything else really. If you pay attention and use the machine correctly yo will get great results.
Things to insure better results.
ALWAYS use the fence to reference off of the work's surface. I have seen the Domino being used with the bottom of the machine as the reference. Because debris can get under the work or the machine this can throw alignment off. When using the fence you have a clear view to insure that no debris will throw off alignment.
A warped, non perfectly flat board being mated to dissimilar board will introduce a problem regardless of what machine you are using.
BUT using the Domino fence to reference on a warped board is still better than cutting the mortise on the same board using the bottom of the Domino as a reference.
There are indexing pins on the Domino ,to reference mating mortises, I never use them for that purpose. I simply elongate the mating mortise to give myself wiggle room.
If you get the Domino you will likely use it for much more you are thinking now. I did, some 10,000+ mortises later.
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On 5/2/18 1:22 PM, Leon wrote:

One of the guys at Woodcraft said the same thing about cupped boards. He said that's the only time it's ever *not* dead-on.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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On 5/2/2018 2:03 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

Forgot to mention, no risk, 30 day return policy.
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On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 10:54:24 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:

Not to be nit picky, but just in case anyone is reading this who does not u nderstand what the Domino machine is. The Domino cuts MORTISES. It DOES N OT cut the tenons. You buy the premade loose tenons and slide into the MOR TISES that the Domino cut. Or you could make your own loose tenons with a table saw, router bit and planer. The Domino is used for joinery by cuttin g mortises in every piece of wood you want to join together. And then you join the wood pieces together by putting loose tenons into all the mortises cut by the Domino.
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On 5/2/18 3:00 PM, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Not nit-picky at all. That's a very important distinction. Very busy and tedious day, yesterday, and I posted that quickly, after a couple of beers to relax. :-)
Thanks for the clarification-- there *is* a big difference.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 4:35:40 PM UTC-4, -MIKE- wrote:

https://tinyurl.com/MrT-Lesson
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On 5/2/18 3:50 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

+10!!
LMAO!!
I pity the foo who drinks and posts!
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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wrote:

I just recently watched a video, below, that was on dowel joinery. It used a Rockler jig kit, below.
http://www.rockler.com/doweling-jig-kits
https://www.woodsmithvideoedition.com/editions/236/dowel-joinery-doors/
I thought about this, knowing the alignment problems you discussed, and thought about it all because of a new one time doweling jig tool of high price which has the same malady as most other dowel jig tools, that being that they do their best to center it on the boards you are using.
Well, duh, not all 3/4 boards are the same in every respect. So I did some thinking on this.
The Rockler jigs do not "center" the dowels, the put it "X/x" of an inch from the edge. and you buy a 1/4", 3/8",and 1/2" jig specifically for the dowel. The markings for alignment are the easiest of any to see as you are looking through a stable Plexiglas piece that you clamp to the board. And while it is designed for two dowels it is easy to modify it for three or four dowels, the video shows that.
The only thing one has to remember is to use it on the same side for all pieces. Say like for a FF, mark only the backside of each piece, or the face side. Then depending on dowel slop, you might want to use a spring clamp or similar at each joint to be sure the pieces stay as aligned as possible.
No matter how one looks at it, it sure is better than messing with mortise machine.
YMMV
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On 5/2/18 3:58 PM, OFWW wrote:

For sure on the mortiser, but I don't think it would be any faster than what I have now.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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The joy of woodworking left me a long, long time ago. I stupidly took the o nly hobby I had and decided to make a living at it since as we have all hea rd, "if you find something you like to do to make a living you never go to work a day in your life."
For me, it's all about time, dollars, and logistics. I turn out the best pr oduct I can within reason so that I will keep my referral business strong.
That being said, I've had the privilege of going through Leon's shop as wel l as being able to study his projects and fine woodworking close up. Even t hough I don't need the damn thing, I felt like I needed to run out and buy a Domino machine after all the great things I saw Leon do with it. I tried every way I could to justify buying one, but my type woodwork just doesn't merit the purchase.
If I built fixtures, cabinets, furniture, or any type of mix of the three o n a regular basis I would certainly buy one. After seeing what Leon has don e with his machine, it makes me realize that most of the folks that I know that use them or the ones in my personal circle that have them, actually us e the tool to about 10% of its use. It doesn't do just great joinery, Leon has found ways to display decorative elements using the Dominos that are pr etty unique.
I think he has earned his money back on that tool many times over as it is now an integral part of his design system when planning projects.
Robert
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On 5/2/18 5:59 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

You pretty much just summed up my experience in the music business. Even though I've had some considerable success and have songs/albums I've played on on the Billboard charts, played on TV, played huge festivals in front of 10s of thousands of people, played arenas, etc., it got to the point where "doing what I loved" was the most stressful part of my life.

For some of the projects I charge several hundred dollars for, I could knock off about 50% of the time it takes to build if I used the Domino.
It wouldn't take long to pay for it and then start increasing profit per project a lot.
Of course, then I would want one of those f-n dust vacs!!
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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On 5/2/2018 8:28 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

I typically charge thousands... So when you step up your quality of work because you can make strong joints quickly, you step up your game. Other wise doing the joints the old fashioned way simply is a waste of time.

FWIW you DO NEED some kind of vac to remove the debris from the mortise. And dust collection with a vac on the Domino is pretty much perfect.
BUT IIRC if you buy most any other tool with a Festool vac you get a break in price. Verify before proceeding... ;~)
When I bought I did not have to justify, I just wanted one. After getting it I found that I could build faster and better and I began selling a lot more of my work. But I did have to step up my game for it to actually pay for itself.
And that lead to all the other Festool tools that I purchased. I honestly can say that all of my Festool tools have paid form themselves.
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On 5/2/18 9:17 PM, Leon wrote:

Well, yeah... my bookcases and other built-ins get into the thousands. I was myopically thinking of the smaller projects I've doing as of late.

I'll probably be back in here saying the same thing sooner or later. :-)
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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wrote:

Hopefully.
Mike, my standpoint is from a low volume, basically one off type of thing. I am retired, and am doing what I do because I can, and I have always enjoyed woodworking from when I was a kid of 6, and used my dads stock of hardwood for a flooring project, in a tree house/fort I built. Needless to say, it didn't go over too well when my dad realized how I did it. :)
But from a business standpoint, and looking at it in that format, I always would buy the best tools, for the sake of convenience, reliability, time saving, etc. Since tools make my livelihood much easier, and over the long haul it has always been a payback. Plus, all the tools for by chosen trade were tax deductible and in some cases a determined need by the feds.
In Calif, a festool vacuum with a good hepa filtration system can be a good thing with the customer and the reasoning for its use could be a sales factor when one has to work in a business of a home.
I have always wondered, as an adult, if my dad was secretly proud of my for having the gumption to cut those boards, and nail them together for the treehouse. :)
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On 5/3/18 2:02 AM, OFWW wrote:

As to your last point... yes, he was. :-)
--

-MIKE-

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On 5/3/2018 2:02 AM, OFWW wrote: Snip

Well heck yeah, BUT if like mine he would never admit it. LOL
My dad worked for Western Electric, back in the early 50's. In our old store room in the early 60's, like every male youngster, I was into giant ball bearings, and giant magnets. Dad had an old crank telephone where the mouth piece hinged on the big wooden box. That crank sent an electrical charge through the lines to get the operator. There were 4 or 5 giant horseshoe shaped magnets in that thing and they were coming out! It was a difficult task and I was successful but that old telephone would never be the same, nor was my butt. ;~O
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ROTFL Great story.
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Mike ... I got a bad case of Domino envy every time Leon posted pix of one of his projects. As a low volume hobbyist. I couldn’t justify the $$$. After lurking on the CL national boards, I found a used one for less than $400 IIRC. I use my cheapo shop vac. Was stunned when I had to shel l out $70 or so for The Festool hose. I don’t use it a lot, but it has been a great asset when I have needed it.
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On 5/3/18 9:04 PM, Gramps' shop wrote:

Maybe I'll check craigslist national and ebay. I'm on their re-manufactured email list, but you have to be fast!
--

-MIKE-

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