OT: What are our schools learning

[HeyBub]

[HeyBub]

Are you insane? What on earth has expertise in the field got to do with public school teaching?

In my state, one can be certified to teach high school mathematics without EVER having had a college course in calculus!

Years ago, I did some research and found the following were incompetent, by law, to teach in the public schools of my state:

• All living Nobel Laureates

• Virtually all winners of literary prizes (Pulitzer, Hugo, Edgar, Caldecot, Booker, etc.)

• All living winners of the Fields Medal

• Virtually all sitting federal judges

and so on.

The reason? They lacked the requisite education courses. Some could step in if they promised to reduce the deficiency by a certain number of semester hours per year, but still...

Does anyone doubt a retired Chemical Engineer could teach high school chemistry off the top of his head or a retired Civil Engineer teach plane geometry without cracking a book or an ex-RN teach biology?

Bah!

[Robatoy]

Only partially true. Cheney.

[Steve]

What static population would mean is that who should be reproducing, aren't.

[J. Clarke]

And who would that be?

[Puckdropper]

"HeyBub" wrote in news:cq6dnfYG06rHDCbRnZ2dnUVZ [e-mail]:

"field" here refers to field of study or field of teaching. It's not important to have great expertise in it, but it is essential to learn something new every once in a while. Too many teachers seem to teach the same thing over and over without either thinking about it or learning any more about what they're teaching.

Sure, you don't need to know the next level to teach the current one. It is essential, however, not to close your mind once you've gained the ability to teach at the current level.

Sometimes the law looks for solutions in the wrong places. Other times, the people it excludes are just the people you want excluded. Just because a fellow can tell a good story doesn't mean he's qualified to explain the structure of a sentence or explain the symbolism in someone else's.

I do doubt it. In teaching, presenting the information in a way that can be easily understood is essential. Knowledge is only part of the equation.

Puckdropper

[J. Clarke]

However they don't know anything about anything except teaching so they don't really havy anything to teach.

According to the education theorists. If you don't know the next level then you don't have a clue why you're teaching what you're teaching other than that somebody told you to. And in math if you don't know several levels above high school algebra you don't even know what math _is_.

If he can write well enough to win a Pulitzer then he knows a Hell of a lot more about the language that any high school English teacher I've met.

If you don't have the knowledge then you can have all the fancy-Dan teaching techniques in the world and YOU HAVE NOTHING TO TEACH.

And that's the problem. The damned teachers don't know diddly-squat about anything except teaching.

Teachers should be require to work in the real world for pay two years out of every five, in fields that utilize the subject that they teach.. If they can't get such jobs then they should have their teaching credential revoked.

As it is teachers are a bunch of ignorant clods who have never done anything in their lives except stand in front of a classroom and regurgitate crap they read in a book.

[Bill]

Well, you wrote: >> Oh, you're one of those. If you don't see your job as showing the >> students how to do whatever the students are supposed to end up >> knowing how to do then why is anybody paying you to teach?

Thought you were talking about me.

Bill

[Larry Blanchard]

He has a point. The people who worry about big problems usually make better parents than those who don't. But it's the know nothings that continue to breed when the good parents don't.

That's why voluntary population control won't work. If we're going to control it some sort of compulsory scheme would be required. But first we have to decide whether it *should* be controlled. There's arguments on both sides.

[Larry Blanchard]

The odds of someone who knows the field being able to convey that knowledge to someone else is a lot greater than someone who doesn't know the field.

The only problem I've seen, and I've been guilty of it when teaching computer-oriented classes, is that the expert sometimes tends to assume that the novice is aware of some basic concepts just because they're simple to him. Took me a while to figure out what I was doing wrong.

[Larry Blanchard]

I thought we'd gotten off of schooling and were just discussing "falling behind" in general. But if you want to get back to that, I'd say teaching proper nutrition, the benefit of exercise, etc. in K-12 could well affect life expectancy.

[Lew Hodgett]

First rule of instruction:

The mind can absorb what the ass can endure.

First lesson I learned.

Lew

[Josepi]

Have to agree with that one. Too many have "never been out of school"

And that's the problem. The damned teachers don't know diddly-squat about anything except teaching.

Teachers should be require to work in the real world for pay two years out of every five, in fields that utilize the subject that they teach.. If they can't get such jobs then they should have their teaching credential revoked.

As it is teachers are a bunch of ignorant clods who have never done anything in their lives except stand in front of a classroom and regurgitate crap they read in a book.

[Josepi]

You mean your "donkey"?

The mind can absorb what the ass can endure.

First lesson I learned.

Lew

[Josepi]

Yeah, let's bring in the Catholic religion into the woodworking discussion.

LOL

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message news:i9hvpg$h6g$ [e-mail]... That's why voluntary population control won't work. If we're going to control it some sort of compulsory scheme would be required. But first we have to decide whether it *should* be controlled. There's arguments on both sides.

[J. Clarke]

So how it is that the know-nothings breeding results in a static population"?

In his static population scenario it appears that "voluntary population control" _is_ working. Seems to be the way it went in the real world in Japan.

[J. Clarke]

A fundamental principle.

[J. Clarke]

So do you have evidence that K-12 in the US does not teach "proper nutrition" and "the benefit of exercise" and that in those other countries it does?

[RicodJour]

You are mistaken. See below.

Partially mistaken on this part.

What? Not shoot them if they can't get such jobs? You're getting soft in your old age.

Man, you've been worked over but good. It really makes me wonder what happened to you in school. Could you possibly paint with a broader brush? Oh, sorry, I see you're using the WWII surplus Kaiser 2000 HVLP. Make sure you don't miss any spots!

You seem to think that the little tykes are nothing more than cups waiting to be filled. Sure the teachers and parents have responsibilities, but the main thing that should be instilled...should be _taught_, is the desire to learn. This can easily come from negative motivation. "My teacher/parent/insert person here is an a- hole, and I'll show them exactly how much they don't know!" It can come from positive motivation, and a even a, gasp!, non-omniscient teacher. "Well, gee, son, is that how it works?! When I started telling you about this stuff, I knew you were going to be a quick learner, but you've outdone me! Now run that by me again so I'm sure to understand it." You don't think that second kid is going to start salivating after knowledge?

Some of the best lessons come from finding out that the person that is supposed to be instructing someone doesn't know all about something. Then it's up to the student if they want to find out more. It's always up to the student, idin't? From the way you've been carrying on, I'm guessing you're carrying a bit of the good ol' American hostility towards teachers around with you for a good many years. So, where did you get to be so smart, hmmm? Did you wait around for the perfect teacher to appear, or did you just realize that it was up to you, and you went out and got the knowledge you thought you needed?

There are three ways to deal with an obstacle:

- bitch about it and just stand there

- wait around until someone comes along and ask them to move it out of your way

- or just find your own damned way around it.

R

[Ed Pawlowski]

It was almost unheard of when I was in school. In my 4 years of HS, we had gym only one year, one period a week. I believe it is a requirement now. Don't know about nutrition. We did not have sex ed either.

I have no idea what other countries teach, but in some third word countries, they probably teach kids to eat anything they can to survive.