OT - the fun and games of "upgrading" (computerwise)

[charlieb]

I THINK I've got this figured out - but this message will confirm that - or not. This will be my 2,608th attempt to post to this group. Once again my fingers are crossed.

If you find a computer - and software compatible with it - that does what you want it to do, and come to know it and the software you've acquired for it like the back of your hand, there's a tendency to stick with it - while the rest of the world moves on.

I had unintentionally become a Computer System Neander

- and the world was leaving me behind - as was Apple and Mac software. My old Mac G3 purchased in 1997 or maybe it was '98, won't run the newest versions of my frequently used software, nor any of the "new stuff" - like SketchUP. And Netscape 3.0 (how Neander is THAT?) can't, or has trouble viewing the content of more and more web sites.

SO - about three weeks ago - I headed down to the Apple Store and picked up a NEW Mac Mini - 6" x 6" x 2" - since I already had a flat screen display, keyboard and mouse. Five or six times faster and 1/30th the size of the old G3 - and it's so CUTE- silver gray sides and a white top

-with a gray Apple Logo.

What happened should be familiar to anyone who has bought one of those fancy "easy to use" dovetail or mortise and tenon jigs. The Silver Tongued Devil who you saw demonstrate it made it look SO EASY, and so Idiot Proof, and so FAST and so ACCURATE.

Then YOU buy it, set it up and use it - just like you think you remember The Silver Tongued Devil did at The Show. That's when perception and reality often conflict.

Despite what The Silver Tongued Devil said - or heavily implied, and despite what The Brochure would have you believe, and despite what the various "reviews" in the woodworking magazines would have you believe - this thing AIN'T intuitive to use, nor EASY, FAST and ACCURATE - until YOU learn to use it EXACTLY as the manufacturer intended for you to use it.

With a computer system that's Stand Alone, migrating upward and learning a new User Interface (Apple's strong point) can be tricky. Add in an Internet Service Provider, totally unfamiliar downloaded software and an A/B Box so you can switch the monitor from Old System to New System and back - and you may drop into The Twilight Zone.

Seems while trying to "set up" the New Computer

- and it's software, I somehow managed to screw up the Old Computer and it's mail and news settings. Suddenly, and mysteriously, I couldn't get to usenet news groups and couldn't send e-mail. Then I COULD get to usenet groups - but couldn't post messages - or send any e-mail.

Only took a bit over a week to be able to at least get to and view posts to the wreck and the woodturning news group, "making do" by spending time at WoodCentral to satisfy my Forum addiction. There I found a recomended Mac newsreader ThunderBird and the web browser FireFox recomended here and in other forums / groups.

Still haven't got my "old" capabilities working on the New Computer but I THINK I've recovered them on the Old Computer. Only this post will tell the tale.

charlie b crossing his fingers as he clicks on "Send Now"

- and whispering "please, please, please work"

[Puckdropper]

charlieb wrote in news:482877DC.1879 @accesscom.com:

*snip*

Good luck, charlie b! I'm typing this on my week-and-a-half old computer. For me it wasn't switching from classic Mac OS to OS X, it was going from XP to Vista. Vista has made improvements, but I've got to find everything again.

My previous computer was 4 1/2 years old, and it's going to be reformatted and passed on to my mother, who's laptop is 5 and starting to develop screen issues. Those hinges aren't made to withstand 5 years of opening and closing...

Puckdropper

[jo4hn]

[truisms snip]

Speaking as one whose first computer (that I did some programming on) was a Burroughs E101 externally programmed thing that was about the size of a desk (and did about as much). I found that over the years that it took about six months to become pretty much obsolete technically. I can still talk in theoretical terms about software and data design. My usage of hardware is pretty much constrained to communications and word processing (don't forget Solitaire). We still replace hardware every four or five years and it's never easy or intuitive. In short don't believe ads or the sweet talk of a computer geek.

mahalo, (and good luck) jo4hn

[Leon]

Snip

I see you Charlieb.

I feeeel your pain. It seems that I cannot make a change to my internet settings or install new internet software with out my ISP also going down at the same moment. So I try to undo or fix it on my end all the while my ISP is going up and down on their end.

[Dave Balderstone]

Charlie, pop over to comp.sys.mac.comm for help getting the new Mac set up for email and news, comp.sys.mac.apps for general application help, and comp.sys.mac.sys for general OS help.

djb

[Tom Watson]

My first personal computer ran CPm.

It had Wordstar 1 on it.

I was very disturbed to go to DOS based stuff.

I got over it.

My first Windows computer was a Dutch box from AST.

It was OK.

I actually miss the 3.1 flat file.

I bought 95 when it came out ("Start Me Up").

I didn't know it then but boxes are designed to run with certain software.

I bought a Sony Vaio.

It ran 95 just fine.

I bought a laptop that ran 95 just fine.

It didn't like Windows 98 SE or the bogus Millenium Edition.

It was made by a monitor company that had reached too far (CTX).

I bought a no name box from MIcro Center.

Ran Win XP and backwards, just fine.

I bought another laptop that was an XP box - a Dell.

It runs fine but is four years old and one bad accident away from a new box.

I bought a MacBook for my daughter on April 23.

It runs everything but it is a cult phenomenon.

I bought a laptop for my wife a year ago.

It runs WinVista.

I don't know what that means and I don't care.

I was happiest when I was running DOS.

Tom Watson tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet

[B A R R Y]

I recently bought a $495 Acer laptop (a newegg.com "Special", $150 less than Staples!) with Windows Vista. I switched to "Classic" menus and window layout, and I'm quite happy.

I honestly don't see what the Vista slamming is about, other than it reminds me of the complaining when XP first was released. However, I don't upgrade an OS, I replace the machine. I'm sure true upgraders, with hot rodded hardware, have issues I can't even imagine...

I actually did look at a few MacBooks, but something comparable to this $500 Vista machine would cost me $1500, so I passed. I wanted a machine that would fit in my flight bag.

I figure with my $495 machine, I can run Open Office, all my 'net and flight planning s/w, and take it all with me, to suck on the free WiFi available at any small airport and most everywhere else.

My current desktop is 6 years old, and will remain in service.

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[Han]

B A R R Y wrote in news: [e-mail]:

I have a Vista 3680-2633, about the same price with 2 GB Ram from Microcenter. Now I have had it for 6 months or so and installed a whole bunch of "nice" software, it does not want to install Vista SP1. I'll have to make an image then try reinstalling Vista, upgrade to SP1, then reinstall all my fucCtrlHCtrlHCtrlH nice software. GRUMPPHH!

[Robatoy]

Only if you use wireless internet, wearing your Birckenstocks and Tilley shorts, at Starbucks while admiring your freshly washed (with recycled water) Toyota Prius.

[LRod]

This and previously described phenomena plus a personal experience the other day are exactly what have driven me to Linux. I downloaded 8.04 the other day (free) and installed it on a 320gB HD I bought for $69. That could have conceivably been my only expenditure, but I gussied up the package with a $40 mobo and a $70 processor. The OS loaded right up, it's preloaded with FireFox (which I'd been using for a year or more), it found the internet just fine on my network, and it reads the other (XP) computers on the network. The XP computers don't see the Linux box (yet) but that's not the fault of Linux, per se.

The other day I took a HD I've had for a while (in fact I had loaded an earlier version of Linux on it a couple of weeks ago before I got the bigger HD) and loaded XP onto it. Then I had to register it. But the registration code I had didn't work, so I had to call tech support. It took almost 50 minutes sitting on the phone waiting for the tech guy to weave whatever magic they have to weave to get me a working reg key.

I'd been teetering on the "bye-bye m$" brink for a while, but now it's "never again." I'll need to find complementary apps to what I'd been used to on m$ stuff for the last 18 years, but then I've functionally had to do that at least three times along the way, anyway, and that doesn't count the C/PM, Applesoft, DOS3.3/4.01/5.0/6.22 transitions I had along the way, too.

The friggin' OS is free! It's stable. It's secure. It has a proven track record. You can be as GUIish as you want with it or play command line as much as you want. It doesn't fight you past the learning curve, which all the rest have, as well, by the way.

m$ wants $ for an obsolete OS (although it's still better, relatively speaking, than its replacement). By the way, I've been describing Vista as the new ME.

[Puckdropper]

B A R R Y wrote in news: [e-mail]:

*snip*

My system does have a few issues, but they're not because of Vista. It's Lenovo's fault. They didn't get power management right, and that's a huge issue on a laptop.

User Account Control was a bit annoying during initial set up. It's easy enough to disable, though. I reenabled it after I was done moving and installing, and it's not popped up unless I've headed in to the control panel.

Puckdropper

[Robatoy]

[Han]

LRod wrote in news:kgoh2418ub0ttv8uhvg5l7bt3gspihn0mf@

4ax.com:

I have some apps that like M$, but dislike Linux. Foremost is Quicken. Have you gotten something like wine (spelling?) to work? Getting rid of Vista may be getting to be a priority for me.

[Han]

Robatoy wrote in news:0cb28030-8e5b-4516-9d8d- [e-mail]:

That logo on the laptop is too small for these eyes ...

[Tom Watson]

Wireless Internet Check Birkenstocks Check Tilley Shorts Sherwin Williams Painter's Whites Starbucks Fuck Starbucks Toyota Prius 1987 Ford F150

Thank god I'm a country boy!

Tom Watson tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet

[Robatoy]

[Tom Watson]

[Lew Hodgett]

Tilley shorts, at Starbucks while admiring your freshly washed (with recycled water) Toyota Prius.

My Tilley hat I love, even learned to reef my Tilley hat with one hand, but Tilley shorts, I'll pass, along with the rest of the crap above.

Lew

[LRod]

I'm very early in my Linux journey. I haven't even begun trying emulators. Frankly, I'm probably going to concentrate on native Linux apps (forgot to mention, Open Office is packaged with the Linux I got--Ubuntu, for the record--it handles all the m$ orifice formats). Less trouble. Speak to some Mac people--they'll probably tell you the same thing.

Incidentally, I gave up on Quicken quite a while ago. I was an adopter in about 1990 and used it faithfully up until about Fall, '06. One of the ongoing problems was utter lack of support from Intuit. They are notorious for it. Check newsgroups geared toward them.

I've been using online banking which covers my needs (which are simple) so far. If I do eventually go back to accounting software, I'll find a native Linux app. But I don't know of any yet.

[Robatoy]