OT Sink Hole in small Texas town east of Houston

[asmurff]

The Strategic Oil Reserve is oil that has already been pumped and is stored in places along the Gulf of Mexico.

[Lee K]

You said "Drill where" and there's an area. How long will billions of barrels last? Longer than not having our own billions of barrels. Drill there.

We're talking a huge expansion in drilling. Cubans are looking to develop these feilds with Chinese help. So, you're saying we shouldn't drill in the Gulf because Cuba is already doing it?

Who knows, since all exploration is outlawed. Again, this is in response to your "Drill where?" query. After all these options are proposed, and you reject them all, you'll then say "Why don't these oil companies do something?".

??!! "Not economically feasible at this time"? OK, you said find out what it costs to extract oil from oil shale (and sands), so here it is: "The cost of a barrel of oil extracted from the shale ranges from as high as US$95 per barrel to as low US$12 per barrel. However it would be prudent to think that costs would be inline with those of the Tar sands and so an oil price in the US$30-40 per barrel range would be considered realistic for them to be profitable."

It seems to me we need to develop these huge areas if only in our self interest to eliminate our dependence and vulnerability to mid-eastern politics and Venezuelan nut-jobs. Even if these areas prove to be more expensive, albeit marginally, they are OUR areas, and profits and jobs are HERE, taxes paid are into U.S. and state coffers, not some Sheik's.

The run-up to $125 has been so quick these areas are only now being developed.

Again, you say "Drill where" and when areas of potential are pointed out you immediately naysay. 50,000,000 barrels of oil at $125 a barrel is $6,250,000,000. Get a few areas, or a hundred areas of that size and you begin to talk about real money. Dollars that stay here.

[Lowell Holmes]

I've resisted getting into this, but the thing that is scary to me is that the U.S. has no inventory of hard manufactured goods, no inventory of petroleum, and our money is all paper. Part of the rising cost is caused by the devalued dollar. We are broke! The world is hungry and we are paying our farmers to let their land lay idle. We make fuel out of corn and the cost of food is going up all over the world.

The only inventory we have is bull shit and political wrangling. The liberal / conservative warfare going on in our country is paralyzing us. We will not drill in the Eastern Gulf of Mexico and we know Cuba is going to take that oil. If we nationalize our medicine, where will the Canadian hospitals send their overflow (people they can't or will not treat.) The whole world is using atomic power plants, but our legislatures know better and we can't do it. If we erect wind generators, the bird nuts have a fit. ....................................... . . . .

Well, I have to go take my grandson for a walk. I hope I can do it without crying. :-)

[J. Clarke]

Will it last long enough to make any kind of real difference?

Where in what gulf is Cuba drilling?

And when did the United States stop drilling in the Gulf of Mexico? What do you think all those big structures on stilts off the coast are? Vacation homes?

No, I don't expect oil companies to be able to make oil. It's running out. Deal with it.

According to who? And what does mining rock have to do with "drilling"?

And what does King Abdulla do with his European and Russian and Chinese and Japanese money? He buys a shitload of _American_ stuff.

So you're saying that they're being developed but it's illegal to develop them?

Oh, I see, as long as somebody makes money it doesn't matter if any problems get solved. 50 million barrels of oil is 2 days supply for the US. You really think that that's going to solve any long-term problems?

The solution to the problem is not scraping for the last drops of oil, the solution is to just plain stop using the stuff. But it's too late for that because of the actions of a bunch of nuts who fought every possible alternative.

[Swingman]

"Upscale" wrote

Leon's an exceptionally talented woodworker and obviously a financially prudent fellow, both of which, without doubt, have much to do with his tool buying acumen.

IME, not a problem ... you will most likely have had to fight him for the privilege of paying

[J. Clarke]

The US has something like 65 commercial power reactors in operation, that's in addition to numerous research reactors, military reactors, etc. That's about as many as in the entire EU. The only other single nation which has anything approaching that number of working reactors is Japan.

--John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

[Lee K]

Until we drill there, we won't know, will we? How long have we been getting oil out of the North Slope fields? What were their projected reserves vs what the yield has been, and continues to be? What, if any, environmental damage has been caused? Why should the experience with ANWR be worse?

Off the shores of Florida, specifically. How many wells do you see there? None, nada, zip. All the wells you cite are off Texas and Louisiana.

Deal with it by finding more. This country is not going to stop using oil overnight, or over decades. We need more domestic sources and we have to stop tying our own hands in the search. YOU deal with it.

It's oil that's the issue, you're anal retentive to focus only on 'drilling' as a means of obtaining it.

Really? What stuff are we making that they're buying a shitload of?

Where did I say that? I referred to the economics of the situation, not the legality.

So your solution is to stop using the stuff because we're scraping for the last drops, but then say it's too late to stop using the stuff that's about to run out. I guess, according to you, we then run on virtual oil, since we won't stop using the stuff when it's no longer there. Number yourself amongst those who fight every alternative. Reminds me of my daughter when she was about 3 years old and wanted three cookies. My wife offered her two, but she was so stubborn that, if she couldn't get three cookies, she didn't want the two being offered either.

[Lee K]

I suggest you look at France as an example of nuclear power generation and usage, especially the French company Areva

As of 2002 there were 59 nuclear power plants in France, generating about 79% of the country's usage, plus significant exports. As of 2005, there were 104 licensed nuclear power plants in the U.S. 103 of which were in operation, generating about 20% of electrical power used. "In the USA, AREVA is present in 40 locations across

20 states and employs 5,000 people. AREVA supplies network products to two-thirds of all US utilities. Moreover, AREVA was ranked the #1 US supplier in nuclear energy products and services, in Energy Management Systems and in Energy Market Systems. Its US headquarters are located in Bethesda, MD.

You might find the following of interest: "At the time of the 1973 oil crisis, most of France's electricity came from foreign oil. France was strong in heavy engineering capabilities, but had few indigenous energy resources,[2] so the French government decided to invest heavily in nuclear power, and France installed 56 reactors over the next 15 years.[7] President of Electricite de France Laurent Striker said, "France chose nuclear because we have no oil, gas or coal resources, and recent events have only reinforced the wisdom of our choice".[9]

Areva NC claims that, due to their reliance on nuclear power, France's carbon emissions per kWh are less than 1/10 that of Germany and the UK, and

1/13 that of Denmark, which has no nuclear plants. Its emissions of nitrogen oxide and sulfur dioxide have been reduced by 70% over 20 years, even though the total power output has tripled in that time.

French environmentalist Bruno Comby started the group Environmentalists For Nuclear Energy, and says, "If well-managed, nuclear energy is very clean, does not create polluting gases in the atmosphere, produces very little waste and does not contribute to the greenhouse effect"."

[J. Clarke]

Three cheers for the French. What does this have to do with "legislatures"?

[Lee K]

You should ask that of yourself. I was responding to your commentary on nuclear power, which itself was a non-response to the prior poster's comments on "legislatures".

Look to the top of this post to refresh your memory.

[Fred the Red Shirt]

They're not nuts. They just expect to be dead by the time the oil runs out, or at least wealthy enough that they can take advantage of the economic collapse.

OTOH, they do manage to get a fair number of nuts to support them, as does every other person who has or seeks money or power. Petroleum may run out but there will always be nuts enough for everyone.

[Fred the Red Shirt]

The French Legislature considered that they had no oil and no coal, and therefore concluded that they had no choice.

[Scott Lurndal]

So, let us analyze this a bit:

ANWR is estimated to have between 5 and 15 BBBL of oil. The US uses 9MBBL of oil per day. So, if we drill ANWAR, we'll have covered 3 years of US consumption assuming 10BBBL recoverable.

Is it worth the time, expense and effort to develop ANWR for that?

(yes, I understand that they'll only be pumping maybe 100KBBL/day, so it lasts longer, but it makes little dent in the 9MBBL/day US consumption).

There is plenty of drilling off the Gulf coastline, or haven't you been there recently?

Very difficult to develop. There are estimates of up to 11BBBL of undiscovered oil in the federal offshore areas of CA, OR, WA. This is another three years worth at full bore, so here again, drilling the coast is only a stop-gap measure.

Being done as we speak. Viability only because of high bbl price.

Sure, all these areas will be economically viable for the oil companies to develop. They'll have little effect on either the price of oil, or the US consumption thereof.

Note also that the Oil companies, for the most part, don't pay the spot market price for their crude; particularly on wholly owned fields. The production costs are a fraction of the spot market price, and the rest is pure profit, particularly for the companies who manage the entire chain from exploration, production, and refining to retail sales.

scott

(Last estimate I saw for production costs on a mature field were in the USD10-20 BBL range).