OT: Seeking Comparison of building costs by type

[Thomas Bunetta]

Once again I come before the collective wisdom and knowledge of the "Wreck"...

Growing tired of the population explosion here in Florida, we began thinking of a different lifestyle. (plus taking advantage of the explosion of local housing cost could mean no mortgage, or almost none!)

Since my Mother was born in Tennessee (Pulaski, raised in Lewisburg) and I have fond memories of a summer there, that's where we decided to look.

We found 94 acres that hasn't been timbered (select cut then) for 50 years or so that has a rental house on it (in need of substantial work). Located in Chester Co. Tn. near Henderson.

I'm faced in deciding which type of construction for a home and for a shop.

The romantic in us likes the thought of a log home, the more practical side thinks CBS, stick built or even maybe manufactured... modular or prefab panel.

My problem is a search for a source that could give an approximate per square foot cost for the various types of construction.

The good news: the Shop comes FIRST! (we intend to utilize it first for storage until the house gets built, assembled or towed in... whichever decision is reached.

Any assistance in a SWAG for me to try and compare the above building costs will be greatly appreciated. TIA, Tom Maker of Fine Sawdust and Thin Shavings

[Edwin Pawlowski]

If I was building a home today. it would use Insulating Concrete Forms. (ICFs) They are extremely energy efficient, reasonable cost to build with, hurricane resistant, and have even stood up to no interior damage in a tornado. (siding was torn off)

You can have lots of quiet, save 50% on heating and cooling costs. You can build from $120 to $200 a square foot, depending on what you want in the house.

[LRod]

Where in FL are you? I'm in Ormond Beach. Real estate has gone up about 30% since we bought here two years ago. I have a nearly 25 year history in FL stretching back to 1956 (pre revolution).

For us Federal retirees, TN is very attractive because it doesn't tax your retirement income (NC, another area we were considering, does). We came very near moving there (far southeastern area). How we wound up here is an involved story.

I can't help you with your actual question. For one thing, I'm too far removed, timewise, from anything I had learned on the subject when we were looking up there 6-8 years ago. For another, since I bought this

30 year old frame with brick veneer that I'm remodeling, I quit looking at that stuff altogether. Now I just follow materials costs, and frankly, I'm pretty much done with that, since my major work is complete.

[Rick Samuel]

Don't know of your financial situation. But if you want cheap, but sound building, be ready to do most of it with friends and family. Start with earth sheltered housing. There are many alternative houses out there. Made with tires, and filled with packed dirt, concert with soda cans/glass bottles. Rammed earth, slip-form concert. Many more. Just remember, to keep cost down, your labor goes up, fast.

[Larry Jaques]

I did the same thing 3 years ago and bailed from LoCal. I haven't had a day of illness since then, either. Oregon agrees with me.

I have fond memories of growing up in Arkansas, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to move back there. YMOV. ;)

city of 5,670? 54% female? Sounds good. I recently moved North to a city of 23k and it's now getting too big for my tastes, though I live in the county. I'm 3 miles outside city limits and prefer it that way.

Well-built modulars and prefabs can be nice. Manufactured homes are all strangely ceilinged and spongy floored trailers. No thanks!

Call the various mfgrs in the Henderson/Jackson area. They'll tell you what they have and how much they charge to put 'em up.

Go with a 40x80 steel building to start. You can always add more s/f later. Insulate what you need to by building what amounts to a SIP home inside it.

Wait until the colder season and you'll get a much better deal, when they're looking for sales and work. Have a slab poured in the hot/dry months, then build later.

That's my dream, anyway. My 2-car shop is still too crammed to get anything done. I spend an hour rearranging crap just to get to tools to work on the current project.

Don't call FL locals for that. Definitely call folks in the local TN area you plan to settle, maybe from Memphis to Jackson to Henderson. Check with locals on who's reliable and who gouges. These folks (TN locals and TN builders) can give you the real costs and timing estimates.

Googling for "modular home TN" and "prefab home TN" brings these +:

homes from FL @ $17.95 s/f.

Nice list, mostly NC!

Lebanon.

us know what you end up with, Tom.

----------------------------------------- Jack Kevorkian for Congressional physician!

Wondrous Website Design =================================================

[Thomas Bunetta]

Hi Rick, The above are all good suggestions, but would probably require me to do it myself. And that isn't possible. I hope I didn't come across wrong in post 1... I'd like to compare the general per square foot costs for each type of home, log Vs. block, etc. And for that matter pros and cons of log homes (contractor built/assembled). Tom

[Thomas Bunetta]

That is one I hadn't thought of, to add to my confusion .

I have done searches using variations of: cost comparison of construction but found nothing to even offer relative costs (item currently interested in). The log sites don't seem to really list the pros and cons of that style building... They tout energy efficiency and hint at needed regular maintenance, but beyond that I can't find much on pricing (except kits, perhaps). Thanks for your help, Edwin.

Tom

[Thomas Bunetta]

Got'cha beat! I'm a Cracker... been here since '48 (pre most everything!) Wrinklewood, (on the map they insist on calling it Englewood ) West coast, about half way between Sarasota and Ft. Myers. Here it has more than doubled, and I want to sell before the market swings to a buyer's market (SOON).

Lucky you! I thought five years ago when we built here we were done with moving (excepting the ol' folks home). Now I gonna do it again! Thanks LRod, Tom

[extiger]

I'm currently building a home 260 miles north of San Francisco. Traditional frame house. Cost of construction is $85/ft-sq (nor including land). The lumber mill is one mile from my front door, so perhaps that is why costs are low. I have a contractor, and he is ever a pro. Compared to building methods here in Los Angeles, my place should be featured in Fine WoodWorking Magazine. I'm impressed.

In a few months I'll undertake construction of my 25x38-foot wood shop. The lumber mill offered me a "garage package" that includes ALL lumber (even trusses), nails, doors, windows, hardware, for about $9/foot. It would have been $7.50/foot, but I specified 10-foot walls to get a high ceiling.

My contractor advised me to go this route on my shop project, rather than buying dismantled barns, or otherwise "bottom-feeding" methods. If you can get land in a lumber region, prices are low.

Gary Curtis Los Angeles

[Mike O.]

My only suggestion would be to go with the practical side.

I've worked on the interiors of a few log homes (by 3 different manufacturers) and IMHO they are not worth the trouble. All the manufacturers seem to have their own idea for how the logs are sealed where they sit on top of each other and none of those ideas seem to be adequate. Add to that all of places where you have to allow for shrinkage of the logs and whole system is just too much trouble. If you want the house to look like a log home, my suggestion is to side it with t&g siding that looks like logs. Any lumber yard can order it for you. As to your question of cost, if a contractor erects it, a log home will be very close in cost to that of standard frame construction...... no matter what the sales people claim.

Mike O.

[Larry Jaques]

Check with Harold Vordos over on RCM, Tom. He's in the process of building one right now up in WA.

[Thomas Bunetta]

Hi Mike, Thanks for your input... it kinda adds to my general feelings about the practical issues. I looked at a number of links Edwin provided, and that form of construction holds promise (I'm trading possible hurricanes for possible tornadoes) in both strength and energy efficiency. Thanks again, Tom

[Thomas Bunetta]

Either that or LoCal was bad for you.

As a location, that hadn't even occured to me.

The scenery might be nice, but SWMBO is too good to consider other avenues.

Kida my thoughts as well, but for the "T-Rex 3 module" model we looked at in Tn. was 80K and up for turn key.

The next trip up will be to meet with some of the same, and maybe an architect or engineer to plan site prep.

I have a 30X36X14 Miracle steel truss building now and have some leak issues, minor but annoying. I'd figured 40X60 if I can pull it.

Alas timing won't allow for such finess in planning, and this whole thing needs to flow like dominoes (If you see Murphy, SHOOT the SOB!).

It gets that way in my shop/ATV garage/mower storage and yard tool haven. In fact it was a call to the local permit folks that initiated my present course. I wanted to build a lean-to first for lumber and storage of . above mentioned things in; I was told no permit possible. Since the last round of hurricanes, I'm not allowed more than 200Sq.Ft of out-building... larger and it must be in like materials as the main building. My shop is grandfathered!

Right about now a headache thinking of all the details! Thanks for sharing, and for the links. Tom

[Mike O.]

I live in Kansas and we are seeing quite a few of the poured concrete homes going up here. We even have a company in my home town that manufactures the foam blocks. I haven't had the opportunity to work on one yet but one of our builders is working on a plan for one now. I talked to a heat and air guy who told me that the heating/cooling systems are designed to exchange the inside air at a certain rate (to remove moisture) because the buildings are so tight.

Mike O.

[Morris Dovey]

| I live in Kansas and we are seeing quite a few of the poured | concrete homes going up here. We even have a company in my home | town that manufactures the foam blocks. | I haven't had the opportunity to work on one yet but one of our | builders is working on a plan for one now. | I talked to a heat and air guy who told me that the heating/cooling | systems are designed to exchange the inside air at a certain rate | (to remove moisture) because the buildings are so tight.

Interesting. In the early 80's I put up a 24x32 concrete block shop building in southern Minnesota. Only the ceiling was insulated and it had two 6x8 solar panels on the south side. On a typical winter day (wind northwest at 10-20 MPH, temperature -15F) the inside temperature usually exceeded 90F between noon and 1PM.

Encouraged by that success, I started construction of a poured

3-bedroom residence with 11-1/2" thick walls using extruded concrete "bridge planks" for floors and roof. Insulation was sheets of 6" foam with a bonded fiberglass outer skin. The north side was earth-bermed up to the second story windows and the entire south wall was covered with solar heating panels (so as to look like a single gigantic panel).

The intent was to make the building(essentially) tornado-proof and self-heating with a two week "flywheel" reserve. Construction and material costs ran fairly close to $8000/floor for a projected total cost on the close order of 24K.

A divorce mid-project put an end to construction; but the concept is a good one. My reasoning at the time was that I could either pay a bunch of guys to bend nails in green lumber or put the same money into stronger and more durable materials. It's definitely a workable approach.

-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Contour Packaging? Whose block is it? I know they do Integraspec.

[mike hide]

Around here developers are building starter mansions all over the place . The first thing they do is tear down perfectly good ranch houses just for the land they sit on . A few of these houses are blocked up and towed to new sites .Basically all you are paying for is the land, a new foundation and the towing charges ..seems a fairly economical way to go to me ......

[Larry Jaques]

C - Both of the above.

Y'all don't think Tennessee is no better, do ya? It's the SOUTH, fer chrissake. Bugs and hummerditty. You can have it!

See what turns up along Mike Hide's suggestion of a free-for-the-towing ranch home.

They have those in TN? > Wait until the colder season and you'll get a much better deal, when

Condolences.

You were lucky for that, anyway. Those permit folks can be nastyass sumbishes, can't they?

Before I left Vista, I got a real ASS full of them. The house was a single home on 1/3 acre lot, zoned C-200 (up to 20 units per acre). I was on propane and septic, but they had put in gas lines to the property when they put the street through.

The realtor went to the City offices and found the price for running sewer line to the house at $50/ft (400+ feet). Zoning said we could put up 5 units on that lot, a big selling point.

2 months later, when the 4th serious potential buyer checked, the price of sewer was at $100/ft and zoning said 3 units max, with parking. I'd been HAD by the city once again!

I lost at least $70k on the sale because the Shitty of Vista squatted on me once again. The first time was when they let the contractor who developed the housing above me to use an alternative routing for the sewer, effectively keeping my property totally isolated from sewer. I had OKed giving him the front strip of property to him for putting me on sewer and sidewalks, about $6,000 extra for him in exchange for a

4-20' swath 150' long, well worth it. The area across from me was a City park and would get no sewer installed, the area behind/below me was on a closed loop system which had been poorly engineered and could handle no more connections. His choice to route around me left my property with only one route to sewer, close to $50,000.

The contractor got an OK to do 2:1 grading for the slope above me but they did 1:1 instead. That caused mudslides during an extra heavy rain we had one year and mud filled my back yard. I didn't note that it also filled the crawl space under the house until years later when the termite guys came to inspect. He told me that he'd have to excavate to finish inspecting, but that the house had more termites than any other building he'd inspected in his 20+ years of pest control. His quote was something like $6,500+ to start.

LoCal bad for me? Just perhaps.

Jewelcome.

[Jim Behning]

If you have not been doing research here is a site for some good points.

infiltration, good insulation (not fiberglass) and low E windows can make a huge energy savings difference. I know the log homes have the foam between the logs but the few I have seen developed some might big cracks between the logs. I guess maybe it is not as big of a problem if all the logs are kiln dried first.

Jim B.

[Swingman]

A commercial building calculator that will get you very close per your geographic location:

sign-up is benign and will be well worth your time ... and yes, I've personally used this particular calculator as the _starting point_ for small commercial bid estimates in the past. Bookmark it well ... it is hard as hell to find from scratch.