All this hub-bub about a few million dollars of bonus money to employees that seem to have such a good contract.
Time for a visit from Vido to AIG.
Vido would explain to each and every one receiving a large bonus that he has a hunch that someone who files a tax return for such a large sum of income probably has a pretty good chance that the IRS would want to perform a very complete review these tax returns to insure there were no errors.
Vido usually has pretty good hunches.
Lew
With the current guy in charge of the federal tax system, that may never happen.
The complaint about bonuses is merely an attempt to apply government methodology to the commercial environment. Governments don't (or shouldn't) award incentives for jobs well done - governments cannot survive if they foster initative and efficiency because each implies some form of dissent from the received wisdom. Members of the guardian mindset must conform for the sake of the task - there can be no reward for straying off the reservation. This is the way members of the ruling sect must think.
Conversely, the commercial mindset works best when members dissent for the sake of the task. Bonuses are merely a way of encouraging such outside-the-box thoughts and actions.
Since time immemorial, governments have experimented with the encouragement of initiative. Such experiments almost always fail, sometimes to the destruction of the entire country. As such, there is a strong reluctance on the part of government to put a toe in that water. In fact, as we see here, there is a strong incentive to impose that principle outside the usual realm.
Business, on the other hand, has had its most wrenching problems when employees are deprived of the opportunity to experiment and innovate.
Bottom line: Governments suffer - and even collapse entirely - when they attempt commercial solutions to guardian problems. Likewise, businesses suffer when they attempt to operate like a government.*
In the instant case, the AIG people who DON'T get their bonuses will soon say "Screw this, I'm outta here," and they'll go to work for a less governmental-minded enterprise. Their places will be filled by bureacrats who know which rubber-stamp to use.
Although not germane to this topic, do not EVER vote for a candidate who says his experience in running a business will serve the public well and especially if he says he wants to apply business techniques to your city's government!
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And here I thought a bonus was for a job well done ....
NOT one well and truely f'd up. :o) P D Q
Well put, and it is not often we get to read properly executed linguistic endeavours such as this. Seriously.
Public service and running a business are not compatible... unless you're Haliburton.
ONE reason Mitt Romney should never be allowed near the White House. (That is just one reason. Any man who makes his woman dress up in funny PJ's to have sex with her is a sick person. Unless it is a clown suit... of course.)
Government is there to manage and look after our interests, not to screw us out of our money, right?
While that probably seems like a sensible conclusion, ther would be a long line of competent successors wanting to earn the $1,000,000,00 salary. the problem with the current situation is that, #1 the government is trying to cast blame for a policy that it is ultimately responsible for instituting. #2 The NO ONE is worth or works enough hours to rationalize a salary or bonus equal to the ones that have been paid. There are plenty of smart people capable of choosing A, B or C. The problem with those people that make extraordinary salaries is that those people make a policy change that makes billions but on a spread sheet those billions are really a very small percentage of what should be being make.
Good , good riddance. AIG does not need exec's that get paid millions to loose billions.
Their places will be filled by bureacrats
Not likely at all, they will probably be replaced by some one from a long line of people that are just as capable if not more of doing the job.
You have to admit that some of these excutive pay packages are in another universe, having nothing to do with us mere mortals. I am certain that they can find competent people who will work for more reasonable pay. Ithe big issue for most folks is paying for this out of our pockets. If the did their jobs well, we wouldn't have to. So all the big money goes to pay for incompetence.
Reminds me of a comment about the CEO of Boing Aircraft Company. It went something like this, "He gets over 14 million a year and he still has not built and delivered the much touted dreamliner aircraft. Think how much he will get paid when he actually delivers the dreamliner."
Well... he did. ....and it is some pretty.
Robatoy wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@r29g2000vbp.googlegroups.com:
What airline is currently flying the Dreamliner? I thought Boeing was catching up on Airbus with respect to delays in delivering aircraft promised.
Let's clarify something first.
One of Government functions is NOT to MAKE money, but rather to SPEND money wisely. Another of the functions of Government is to do things "Business/ The Private Sector" can't, or won't.
Would the Transcontinental Rail Road, or the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA), or The Interstate Highway System, or NASA, or The Panama Canal, or The Internet - and all the the economic growth they fostered - have happened IF Government hadn't financed them?
Let's just take NASA. Because the cost per pound to put something in orbit was so high - NASA paid for the birth of the semi-conductor industry. Without that stimulus, think of just about anything in your home, office and car - that isn't directly or indirectly the result of the semi-conductor industry - and it's spinoffs. Without NASA, think of all the value satellites have added to the world's economy. And when you go to a hospital consider what wouldn't be there if NASA didn't exist.
Now give me any private sector investment that had a comperable Return On Investment, or impact of the citizens of this country- as well as other countries.
Then give me examples of Government actions which plunged the country into economic depression every couple of generations, give or take a decade.
Wall Street has cost citizens far more money than Government has "wasted". And if you use "Welfare Fraud" as a prime example of Government Waste, do a little research on Corporate Welfare.
And BTW - why is The Private Sector coming to the Tax Payer, demanding money - because they're "Too Big To Fail"?
It's possible for one mindset to learn the methodologies of another. It gives them an understanding and that's usually a good thing. Some who spend ALL their lives in government have no concept (i.e., Clinton, Obama, Nixon, Kennedy, Johnson).
Bush I came from a political family (his father was a U.S. Senator) but after the war, he came to Texas with a new bride and only a few million in his jeans, but made good (ever heard of Pennzoil?) in business before entering politics. Bush II also came from a political family, but did okay in private business before becoming governor.
Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon were always politicians. Carter had a stint in the Navy. Excepting Bush I & II, you have to go back to Truman to find anybody with a business background.
In the case of Romney, he was successful in business, came from a political family, and was, himself a governor. Many people who leave government go into private business, often on the boards of major corporations (i.e., Gerald Ford).
No. The purpose of government is to protect, perpetuate, and grow itself. If you're interested, here's a short list of guardian mindset mandates:
Shun trading Exert prowess Be obedient and disciplined Adhere to tradition Respect hierarchy Be loyal Take vengeance Deceive for the sake of the task Make rich use of leisure Be ostentatious Dispense largess Be exclusive Show fortitude Be fatalistic Treasure honor
The commercial mindset is characterized by
Shun force Come to voluntary agreements Be honest Collaborate easily with strangers and aliens Compete Respect contracts Use initiative and enterprise Be open to inventiveness and novelty Be efficient Promote comfort and convenience Dissent for the sake of the task Invest for productive purposes Be industrious Be thrifty Be optimistic
NASA was not the nexus for the semiconductor industry. The modern transistor, and its usefulness, came into being in 1947, long before NASA.
But your rhetorical question is not hard to answer. Walmart. Intel. Microsoft. Hewlitt-Packard. Even today, President Obama is talking about spending untold sums to assist in computerizing medical records. Walmart is doing it. Today.
In the past five years, private industry has launched far more satellites than the U.S. Government.
That's not to say that government doesn't have a roll. They are the only ones that can FORCE projects thru - such as condemning right of way for roads or evicting farmers to build a dam.
Governments must exercise oversight and act as unbiased arbiters, true. It failed to do so in the '20s. On the other hand, the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 as amended by Clinton in 1995 is the direct cause of today's troubles.
"Waste" isn't the issue - you can't build a house without making sawdust. As Jesus said: "Waste will always be with us" (or words to that effect). "Wealth" is what matters. Private enterprise creates wealth. Government destroys it. There is almost nothing government does 'for its citizens' that couldn't be done better and cheaper by the citizens themselves.
Fight a war? Most wars in history have been fought by mercenaries. Police protection? In my large city, we have about 20 times the number of private security guards as cops on the beat. Fire fighting? Eighty percent of our nation's firefighters are volunteers.
No, they come to the government asking for money because that's where the money IS. They somehow know that knocking on YOUR door or MY door wouldn't get them very far. Pretty clever of them, don't you think? I guess that's why they get paid the big bucks...
snipped-for-privacy@r29g2000vbp.googlegroups.com:
I do not know the answer to that. They show it around and it is slick as a shark. A truly beautiful airplane. I think it is called the 787. Not sure, I shall Google.
Encourage trading Exert prowess Be obedient and disciplined Adhere to tradition Respect hierarchy Be loyal Do NOT take vengeance Deceive for the sake of the task NEVER Make rich use of leisure Be ostentatious NOT Dispense largess NOT Be exclusive Show fortitude Be fatalistic NO Treasure honor
The commercial mindset is characterized by Shun force . USE force. You got it. make it work...in the right place Come to voluntary agreements Be honest Collaborate easily with strangers and aliens Compete =E2=80=A8Respect contracts Use initiative and enterprise Be open to inventiveness and novelty Be efficient Promote comfort and convenience Dissent for the sake of the task. NO! Dissent when appropriate. Invest for productive purposes Be industrious Be thrifty Be optimistic
Hell yes to all of the above, including the ones I corrected The last three are ultra huge!
Public service and business can certainly work hand in hand, for each to be successful, they must; however, they require totally different skill sets.
The late Senator Barry Goldwater often commented about how it took most of his first term to learn how to work in government.
He felt his prior experiences outside government did little to prepare him for working in the Senate.
Lew
That sounds really good, but sets a very dangerous precedent. Remember that the bailout money was also paying the salaries for the other workers at AIG as well. So, the agreement is that $1M bonuses (that, by the way, were contracted for before the bailout, so there is an issue of breach of contract) are excessive. Would $500k been OK? No? How about $250k? $50k? $10k? $5k? How about the salaries of the employees being paid? How much is too much, $500k? That seems to be the limit being set by the president right now. $500k is an awful lot of money, more than most of us make, since this is a failing company, shouldn't that number be more like $250k or $100k? Really, since this was a failing company, maybe nobody should be making more than the US average salary. Now you're getting down into the government dictating what an average person at a company that happened to be mis-managed is making. Now, if it's OK to set salaries for companies being bailed out, should the government be setting salaries for companies that have government contracts? Pretty soon, the rationale for why the government can set *your* salary will articulated.
This is nothing more than populism run amok. The thing is, congress set no limitation in the law limiting how the companies used these bailout funds. The amount in question here is less than 1/10 of 1% of the total amount that AIG received. IMO, there should have been no bailout to begin with -- if a company is going to fail, let it fail or reconstitute itself through bankruptcy proceedings.
Robatoy wrote in news:80474bbd-6980-4798-bd27- snipped-for-privacy@f33g2000vbf.googlegroups.com:
I wish the big HUGE Airbus would get better reception. Our airports are so overcrowded, (especially the flightpaths to and from the airports) that the waiting times and delays are becoming unbearable. Bigger single loads (plus the capability to load and unload passengers in larger quantities) would be best (IMHO), rather than more and more little bitty planes flying to more and more destinations like gnats all around.
(I live near NYC)
There are only a handful of airports in the U.S. that can handle the Airbus behemoth. That means that several (many?) airports will need upgrades: Longer runways, condemnation of private lands to accommodate these runways, enhanced servicing facilities (i.e., fuel trucks, provisioning, gates to handle double the passenger load, etc.).
Implementation of the plane will also mean more money going to the perfidious French.
The Airbus 380 is supposed to be able to operate out of any airport than can handle the 747.
Less governmental...like working at an ACE hardware store? I wouldn't want to go job hunting in this economic climate. Having AIG on a resume would probably be the quickest way to get the application shit-canned.
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