About 35-40 years ago B&D was a decent brand tool. Then they started color
coding their power tools into cheaper built units. Looks like they are
leading PC sown that same path. The tools even look kinda B&D'ish.
For less than $160 you can get an 18v combo kit including a Drill/Driver,
Circle saw, Recip saw, and Flash light.
Or, a 120 volt 13amp circular saw with laser for $59.99.
Yup! And another one gone, another bites the dust.....
I already am well aware of PC having done the moonwalk for a while.
Their production routers used to last me a few (as much as 8) years,
then the later ones they were dead in (max) 2 years. Bearings. That
all happened when the motors became too small to fit in the older
bases. Crap. Just another example of idiots at the wheel.
I won't even bundle them with B & D and Ryobi and such.. When you buy
today's B & D, you KNOW it's crap...to put a name like PC on it, is
Those $ 200K MBA's are doing a bang-up job, eh? " Look, boss, I saved
us another 2 million by going to even cheaper plastic!!"
No wonder that the more serious (professional) tool jockeys are
spending extra for Festool. You just can't trust the other guys
Yep ... Last PC router I bought was PC plunge model circa 2005 ... POS, with
more plastic on it than Pamela Anderson. I have to use wrenches for setup
because all the plastic knobs/parts broke.
Hardly worth the fire sale price I paid for it ... at a garage sale!
... and another example of what they KNOW an idiot public will accept!
It's funny and I knew it would happen, I even called PC back when B&D bought
them and had a hell of a time finding someone to talk to about my concerns.
He assured me they were separate identities and PC would only improve
towards the professionals. I told him I was not convinced. I also let him
know how many tools I had and what percentage were PC and the story of my
14.4 drill/driver which has been going strong for 7 years with only battery
I remember all to well what AMC did to Harley Davidson. Hopefully PC will
get the same message and grab it back from B&D shit.
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
IIRC, and please correct me if I am wrong about this, isn't there some
large corporation that owns B&D, PC, DeWalt, and Delta tools?
So, when are this mega corporation going to buy out Milwaukee tools, and/
or Makita (SP?) Tools, or will Hitachi buy out all of them?
I blame it all on Sears and Craftsman tools.
This is the high points of B&D's history, a la B&D.
It gives an overview of their larger acquisitions, and the last
paragraph is pretty interesting. I didn't know they owned DeVilbiss.
Sadly, they don't list everything they own.
Ironically, searching around on this subject, it appears that B&D is
actually a company with no centralized form of ownership itself. It
is a "hive" that is so large and so diverse that there are many
different investment companies such as Barclay's, Vanguard Funds,
etc., that own large chunks of this behemoth, including a lot of stock
in private hands.
The tools they sell are nothing more than another page on the
portfolio, right after microwaves, weedeaters, coffee makers, etc.
I'm wondering if there is room for a new company that truly makes the best
tools made in all categories, sadly probably not. Guess this is called
progress. Can't imagine what tools will be available in 20 years.
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Not likely that 12 company will build the best of everything, there never
has been. Festool may be the closest today. Tools today will probably be
better than they are today. IMHO tools today are better than they were 20
years ago, they have just change names. GM and Ford used to be considered
top notch, Now Honda and Toyota fill the position and both of those are
much better than GM and Ford ever thought of being.
On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 13:14:18 -0700 (PDT), " email@example.com"
They own DAPC. That's DeVilbiss only in very small print. Part of the
agreement when the compressor part of the company was split from
DeVilbiss, the makers of high quality spray coating equipment.
This is the nature of publicly traded companies. You'll find that the
same is true for IBM and GM and any other big company that is listed
on the stock exchanges. If you want a piece of it all you have to do
is call your broker and pay the price, currently about 60 bucks a
This is also true for Bosch, which is privately held. Most of their
income comes from auto parts, not tools.
It was bought about three years ago by an investment group named TTI.
Until that time, there was no such animal as a Chiawanese Milwaukee
tool. TTI owns several brand names of tools, and in some cases acts a
jobber/manufacturer for other different companies.
A great deal of Hitachi is owned by B&D, hence the bizarro
colorations, decals, and plastic gizmos glued all over their tools
these days. I think at this time (not sure, no cite) that most
Hitachi and Skil tools come off the same Chinese production lines.
Sorry, it happened long before that. I know it is popular to bitch
slap Sears as an easy target, but this all started well before Sears
started reducing the quality of their own branded products.
Quite a trick for B&D to own "a great deal" of Hitachi, considering
that Hitachi is about 20 times the size. What B&D did do in 2002 was
enter into a "cooperative business arrangement" with Hitachi. The
current B&D annual report does not even contain the word "Hitachi".
Funny that if the reason is B&D ownership, Dewalt, Porter Cable, and
Delta, all of which _are_ owned by Black and Decker, do not have
similar "bizarro colorations, decals, and plastic gizmos glued all
over their tools".
Regardless of the brand, the Japanese produce a surprising amount of
stuff in China. But unlike American manufacturers seeking to have
stuff made over there, the Japanese know how to get results out of
Incidentally, you are aware are you not that Skil is owned by Bosch,
not Black and Decker, and that Bosch is a privately held company based
You are aware, are you not, that those "low quality made in China"
Craftsman hand tools are all stamped "Made in USA", not on a sticker
but in the die?
Cool, Dude! With you around I feel like I have my own editor, fact
checker, and wife all in one shot! Thanks for the careful reread.
My comments were made in simple idle conversation with my Saturday
morning coffee, but once again I appreciate your efforts to bring my
meanderings up to the expected standards of this group.
Our perspectives might be quite different. I had read somewhere that
B&D (sorry, no cite, but I am sure you will supply a "yeah" or "nay"
as needed!) had bought a stake in the tool arm of Hitachi America
which was (in my understanding) formed in order to manufacture and
distribute their current line of consumer tools.
It is perspective; for example (don't apply these to Hitachi/B&D when
you are looking the numbers up, I pulled them from the air for
purposed of illustration) if company X buys into a family member
company for 200 million, that may be a lot for the family member
company. If the parent company of the family member is worth a
trillion dollars, it isn't worth mentioning.
What B&D did do in 2002 was
Wouldn't argue that one. I have no doubt you have read all umpteen
thousand pages of the subsequent back up documents, so I believe you.
I wonder... it is possible that they have resisted putting all that
stuff on DeWalt, PC, etc. because some still consider them
professional tools? Are you saying that if they are all owned by the
same company they should all look alike and not target specific
markets? My personal opinion (ha!) is that with today's tools, the
marketing department identifies the niche, and the tool, the design of
the tool including how and where it is made are all done with the
niche (dollar specific) in mind. You could be right, though. Other
forces could be at work.
No, am not aware, I am not, that Bosch is privately held. Bosch GmBH
is held by the Robert Bosch foundation, and <10% of the company is
held by the Bosch family. I am not trying to pick nits here, but I
didn't want you to fall into the same hole I did when I said "Hitachi"
and you took it to mean the entirety of Hitachi and all its
permutations and holdings.
I am guessing here, so feel free to correct me if you think I am wrong
(seriously... feel free! ;^) )
but I would think that you know that many of the Chinese manufacturers
of low end products are simply jobbers. They bid on jobs like I do.
I have a friend of a friend that gets a trade magazine from
manufacturers in China, and you can get anything you want made there
with your name on it.
Take a look at this, and go to the bottom of the page. http://tinyurl.com/5llmun
Any of that crap look familiar? No telling how many different brands
we know are made side by side on the same lines.
Once again, I am not aware, I am not. I looked at my cordless drill
and it says "Made in China" on a decal. Same with the light, same
with the saw (bundle kit - $129). No die marks anywhere... I even
checked the charger. I am sure they are Craftsman, though as I
purchased them there myself.
Makes me wonder. Now I am afraid to look at the rest of my tiny
Still though, I wouldn't blame Sears for the rest of the manufacturers
making lousy tools, no matter where they are made.
I used a lot of really crappy tools and saw a whole lot more when the
venerated Rockwell tools decided (no, I don't know who did it or why)
to come up with a homeowner line. It was as bad as anything out
there, and the worst tools that I think (here's my opinion, no facts)
probably the worst tools mass manufactured (my definition of mass may
be different than yours!) in the USA for sale to the public.
Hmmmm...... last time I used my cordless drill, I used my hands to
hold it and guide it. Using the drill press, I cannot hold it and use
When I use my circular saw, I hold it in my hands and guide it; my
table saw stays in place and I can't move it.
Are you saying that a cordless drill is actually a stationary tool?
Are you saying that a cordless drill is not a hand tool?
If my cordless drill is supposed to be mounted on in some device to
make it stationary, or if it is not supposed to be held in my hands
when I drill, drive screws, sand or polish with it, I need a diagram
on its use as I have been using them the wrong way for years.
If the power doesn't come from your muscles it's not a "hand tool".
A cordless drill or a circular saw is a "portable power tool", not a
At least if you're looking them up in a tool catalog that's how you're
going to find them organized.
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