Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:

That is an option and may be my next step. However, jointing on a router table is fairly common. I suspect my long boards relative to the fence may be the issue. I'm fine most of the time, but all it takes is a just a little less pressure on out-feed fence to cause the bump.
https://derbydad03.imgur.com/all/
See here for one of many vids on jointing with a router table.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo

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On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:42:02 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I am curious. Are you not able to glue from the table saw rips?
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On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:04:56 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:

It is my understanding that the best glue-ups come via this process:
1 - Joint one edge to make it perfect straight and square 2 - Rip the board parallel on the TS with the jointed edge against the fence 3 - Very lightly joint the ripped edge to remove any saw marks.
My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge that is buttery smooth.
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On 1/13/2018 6:21 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

yes

yes

NO! This introduces error, the same you are having problems with. If you have tooth marks you need to set you saw up better and or be using a better blade. Joining the opposite side after the rip can cause the board to taper.

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On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:41:56 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

While the second pass may not be needed (more on that later) I don't see the connection between the second jointing pass and my problem. My problem is a pressure related problem that has nothing to do with a second pass. There doesn't even need to be table saw in the room for my problem to occur. ;-) I'm not even getting past Step 1.

They talk about a very light pass in this thread:
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/edge-jointing-both-sides-board-126194/
I don't have a jointer (obviously) but how can a light pass cause the board to taper? Whether jointing on a router table or on a jointer, aren't you taking off the same amount of wood along the entire length of the board?
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Thanks for not making me explain that. :-). Inconsistent feed results in inconsistent results. :-). Welcome to the AR club. :-)
Theoretically the router table and fence can do what you want to happen. But every thing has to be perfect. And something, including possibly your inexperience is affecting your out come. This will is a relatively difficult task, it is not something you just do perfectly right off the bat. Practice, practice, practice. Or use tour TS to get your straight edge.

A TS And a surface planer both have fixed indexing surfaces. Your hands are not a fixed surface. The rip fence on your TS and the table on a planer are hard fixed reference surfaces. Those surfaces are a hard fixed surface opposite the cutter. Your hands don't come close to providing an absolute fixed surface opposite the cutter on a jointer or router bit. To be accurate you have to remove variables. Your hand feed rate is a constant variable.

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Not necessarily, no -- and that's what can produce a taper.
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On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 16:21:56 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

2a - Make sure you've used your Glue Line Rip blade.

Nope. No saw marks needed. See 2a (above).

Not the best for a glue up.
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On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 9:06:05 PM UTC-6, snipped-for-privacy@notreal.com wrote:

I wondered about that as well. A really smooth surface won't soak up the glue as well and you could squeeze out too much when clamping.
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On 1/13/2018 9:43 PM, Michael wrote:

There is a lot of back and forth on this. Typical yellow/wood glue is not a good gap filler and works best with a minimum of product in the joint. Tooth marks create gaps. Additionally there is a lot of back and forth talk on starving a joint by squeezing glue out of it. Glue starvation as it is often called is when there is no or not enough glue on the surface to begin with not because you had squeeze out. You get squeeze out because there was too much glue in the joint to begin with. If you don't get squeeze out you have no indicator that the joint is tight. I have never had a joint fail because of too much clamping pressure and causing too much glue to squeeze out. Remember, a quality glue joint line is one that is almost invisible.
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On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 11:02:08 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:

Thanks for the info on this. I think was Norm who once talked about not clamping too hard because it would squeeze all the glue out of a joint. I've always kept that in the back of my mind.
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On 1/14/18 11:02 AM, Leon wrote:

Yeah, there are a lot of old wives' tales in woodworking and those are three of them. Glue doesn't "bite" and holds perfectly fine to "buttery smooth" surface. The glue staved thing is mostly a myth. The proper amount of glue is enough glue to lightly coat the surfaces, and if wanted, allowed to "soak in" for a minute before joining together and clamping. And that is usually too much. :-) Like you said, if there's *any* squeeze-out at all, it's enough. As for clamping, again I will say I think most people would be very surprised by how little pressure is actually required for a properly clamped glue joint. Most people, myself included, use WAY too much pressure and way too much glue.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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wrote:

Try it with glass.

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On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 5:03:30 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@notreal.com wrote:

Apples and Gorillas
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On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 14:27:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

No, it really isn't. It's a mechanical connection.
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On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 6:53:14 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@notreal.com wrote:

OK, let's stop arguing about stuff that doesn't matter to this thread and get back to the actual issue.
Bottom line: Are you saying that the surfaces created by a straight router bit on the edges of two 1 x poplar boards is too smooth for Titebond III to perform its designed task?
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On 1/14/18 8:22 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I don't know what he's saying, but I'll say no. Some advice, though. You'd be amazed at how much smoother (smaller "bumps") a surface you get with a larger diameter bit at a higher speed and slower feed rate with the stock.
I suppose someone could do the math, but I'm sure you can picture that the larger the diameter of the cutter head, the larger the radius of the cut, meaning fewer and smoother "bumps."
In ANY case! Many times, when using a jointer (JOINER!, nor wait! JOINTER! No, no, it's joinyerterner!) or router, I am often in the habit of "planing" the edge surfaces with light passes of 100-120 grit with a hard surface sanding pad (block of wood) if I'm dissatisfied with the smoothness of the surface.
I RARELY do that when said surfaces are to be glued together. And have never done so when using the table saw and rip blade to prep the boards to be glued together.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 9:41:58 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:

I'm making 2 panels from 1 x stock. Each will have 2 seams. Each will see more or less the same use/abuse since they will both be used as tops for the base cabinets for the bookcase project. (similar to yours)
I already glued up one panel with boards jointed with a 24 tooth rip blade.
I then figured out what I was doing wrong with my hands and jointed 3 other boards with a 1/2" straight bit on my router table. I'll be gluing up that panel tomorrow.
I will mark the underside of each panel as to the jointing method used. I will do my best to remember to revive this thread if either of the panels fail during my lifetime.
By that time I'll probably be able to post a hologram version of the failed joint image that I'll create with the MRI machine that I'll build with my 3D printer array.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izQB2-Kmiic

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On 1/14/18 9:16 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Haha! Please don't pay too much attention to the people trying to make rocket surgery out of this. IIRC, you were joining two 9" wide boards to make 18", correct? If I were worried about anything, I would be worried about cupping on those panels. I would rather join four 4.5" boards than two 9" ones.
If I have the exact dimension wrong, forgive me, but I'm sure there's something out in google land that tell the maximum width for sub-panels in a wide panel glue-up.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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On 1/14/18 9:50 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

Also keep in mind that this maximum width will change depending on the grain orientation of the wood. I've seen solid, single plank panels, 20+ inches wide that were dead flat after 50 years. They just happened to be made from 1/4" sawn stock that must've been from some seriously old-growth threes. You have to have 4ft logs to get that kind of width with 1/4 sawn boards. :-)
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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