Jimmy Carter website

[Lew Hodgett]

RE: Subject

That outfit would screw up a wet dream.

Lew

[fredfighter]

Actually, no. They were executed (possibly by firing squad, I don't know) after FDR died. So it wasn;t completely on his watch, though I don't suppose the outcome would have been any different if he had lived longer.

They wre not shot *when captured* but rather, as you later made clear, after trial and after exhausting their appeals and they were represented by counsel at trial (I think) and on appeal (certainly).

If you will read the Constitution you will find that the Congress (not the Commander-in-Chief) is granted authority to create courts martials or tribunals for the purpose of trials such as those referred to above. HIstorically the Congress did so in the Articles of War, which delegated much of the details of those commissions to the Commander-in-Chief.

In ex parte Quirin the USSC held that the Commissions established by FDR, and the sentences were consistant with the intent of the Congress as expressed in the Articles of War. The Federal courts also heard at least one appeal from, (upholding the conviction) thewar crimes trial of Japanese General. It is clear that the courts have had jurisdiction to hear appeals from military trils even of foreign nationals even overseas.

The Articles of War were repealed in 1949 and replaced with the UCMJ. The Commander-in-Chief no longer has the same degree of latitude as previously. Military Commissions are now required to conform much more closely to the standards of the Federal Court system.

FDR did not 'pack' the USSC. When the USSC struck down some New Deal legislation one of the proposals was to expand the membership of the court so that FDR _could_ 'pack' the Court by appointing new justices without having to wait for the sitting Justices to retire. However, that did not happen.

I certainly agree that FDR's treatment of the nisei was aggregious.

[David Stuve]

I don't think Bush is evil. In my eyes Cheney is definitely evil - be it torturing prisoners, spying on Americans, falsified intelligence, outed CIA agents, war profiteering by contractors - those trails all lead back to Cheney. I'd call DeLay evil too - he's hell bent on selling the US to the highest corporate bidders and viciously destroying the careers of those who question him, yet he sings louder than anyone else does in his church on Sundays. Like I said earlier, Bush is the face man for the administration. I do think he's doing a lousy job though - nobody ever seems be held accountable for screwing up under his watch.

Interesting coments about FDR. I'm no apologist for him, but read his writings or listen to his speeches - I find him really spine-tinglingly inspiring. If he's responsible for terrible things under his watch, then I hope he's held accountable for them. The difference between him and GW for me is that we are doing terrible things *now*, and can do something about it rather than pretend it isn't happening.

Just a comment or two:

Wasn't shooting spies/saboteurs common practice in WW2 on all sides?

This is a good thing during times of war. War profiteering is treasonous behavior, and this is the best way to avoid it. I'm still amazed that none of the contractors over in Iraq have been tried for war pofiteering. How many billions are "missing"?

If we're ever in another all-out war like WW2 I'd expect Bush to do the same thing. Our war in Afghanistan was a couple of weeks, and so was the one in Iraq. Ever since then it's been a police action, not a war by any classical sense. The so-called "War on Terror" is really more like a war on organized crime - gathering lots of intelligence, and making arrests.

Interesting. That 90% figure is often bandied about, but you have to have a sense of perspective. That amount only applied to the super rich. I don't think it would matter a whit to the US economy if Bill Gates had to pay 90% income tax. The idea that a progressive income tax is a bad thing depends on trickle-down economics, something that has never been observed to work in the real world. Take our recent tax cuts. The idea was that by cutting taxes we'd all have extra spending money, and the US economy would boom as that money sloshed around. Remember the projections of 250k new jobs a month? It never happened - wealthy people just pocketed the money, or invested it in China. The only thing that saved our economy was lowering interest rates to 0% and creating a housing boom. I remember reading last year that refinancing and construction accounted for 50% of all job growth in the last 5 years.

It's well-known that the press had gave presidents "gentleman's discretion" It's said that all but a couple (two?) of the presidents up to JFK had mistresses, the press knew, yet said nothing. It's too bad they did that because Americans have this bizarre moral expectation of our leaders that they never have and never will live up to. When will grow up and realize that we will never geat moral leadership from our politicians or entertainers? FDR was never photographed in crutches as a sign of respect and discretion that was a bit more positive for the nation's psyche.

Dave

[Charles Self]

Actually, I don't much like them, but I don't recall them delighting in the concept of nuking another country, so, no, they're not vile, at least not in the same sense as Ms Coulter.

[WConner]

"Cheney is definitely evil - be it torturing prisoners, spying on Americans, falsified intelligence, outed CIA agents, war profiteering by contractors - those trails all lead back to Cheney."

More BS from a blathering idiot.

Walt Conner

[Tom Watson]

Thank you.

Tom Watson - WoodDorker tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)

(website)

[WConner]

For me, I skip heaven.

Could be.

Walt Conner

[Charles Bull]

Would you wanna to be in heaven with Bush, Cheney, the Neo Cons and Pat Robertson or with Jimmy Carter?

For me, I skip heaven.

[Charles Self]

Given the quality of the people I've met who EXPECT to be there, I'd skip it, too.

[WConner]

Doubt the choice will be yours.

Walt Conner

[Neil Ward]

Jimmy Carter, Woodworker A visit with the former president, and drawings of his porch swing by Jim Cummins at:

[David Stuve]

Walt, I would challenge you to expand your political horizons. Go down to your local library, and do a Lexis Nexis search on Americans torturing prisoners, no-bid contracts in Iraq, the forged yellowcake documents, interference with CIA intelligence gathering, the outing of Valerie Plame, the botched reconstruction of New Orleans, and the recent scandal about ordering the NSA to spy on Americans. Cheneys name will be prominently featured in *all* of those subjects.

I guess you could argue that Cheney is innocent, but that would be more than he does. Usually when asked about any of these issues they're "classified or no comment."

Dave

[Charles Self]

But who really KNOWS? I don't. Nor do you.

[Tim Daneliuk]

You mean aggressively going after *non-uniformed combatants* for whom the Geneva accords do not apply. They can be shot on sight as spies if we like. There is both legal grounds and precedent for doing so. And the "torture" in this case involves making them uncomfortable and physically intimidating them, not, say, beheading them with a dull knife like their compatriots do. Foreign spies are not entitled to the same civil liberties that US citizens and legal residents enjoy. In fact, they're not even entitled to the consideration legally required for foreign military combatants. When the Brave Soldiers Of Allah (tm) are willing to wear uniforms and fight other soldiers, not kill innocent civilians, then they'll get treated accordingly when captured. Until then, they are entitled to no consideration whatsoever.

To misquote a famous person from history, "The Left is an Ass". the no-bid Halliburton contracts were let out under the *Clinton* administration primarily because there are so few companies who can/will do this work at the relatively low net margins to be had.

There will be due process to find out who did what as regards to the whole Plame matter. Stay tuned - it will have been much ado about nothing.

Go find a history book with small words and simple concepts. You will discover that the last two major cities to be destroyed by disaster (Chicago in 1871 and San Francisco in the early 1900s) were rebuilt with

*private* money. It is not now, nor has it even been the charter of the Federal government to rebuild cities. Only in the Looney Left does this qualify as an indictement against the current administration.

Again, we need to help you with the concept here. The NSA was not given an unlimited hunting license. They were only given room to do this when the American in question was in contact with a *probable threat*. FWIW, I don't like this either - there should always be judicial oversight when wiretapping in any form occurs - but the way you people drool on about it, you'd think the NSA was watching you get aroused watching Al Franken on TV at night. Your secret is safe. The NSA doesn't care that much about you.

Grow up. Cheney is neither guilty nor innocent. He is a cog in a big machine. A big machine made bigger for 70 years by the Chimps on the Left and now getting even bigger because of the Chimps on the Right. Blaming Cheney misses the point and diverts the blame from the real culprit: The American People, who for years have begged for something-for-nothing, who want some illusion of security no matter how much freedom is compromised, and who think they can pluck the Golden Goose (the wealthy) with impunity. So long as we are a nation of moochers and whiners, it will make little difference whether the regnant politics are Right or Left...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tim Daneliuk [e-mail] PGP Key:

[Mark & Juanita]

You can stop reading from the Democrat talking points now.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

[Charles Self]

Oh, come ON, Scott. You know it's ALL Clinton's fault.

[WConner]

I believe that was my point, glad to see you agree.

Walt Conner

[WConner]

Missed the part about "Wearing their country's Uniform", huh?

Walt Conner

[WConner]

"do a Lexis Nexis search on Americans torturing"

These folks consider it torture if you don't say please and thank you. Playing loud rap, now that is torture. Why don't you harp on people cutting off heads on live TV or something that is really noteworthy? I get damned tired of you folks always talking about how bad the USA is, I guess you know the way to your utopia?

" yellowcake documents"

While these particular documents might not have been good, British Intelligence still stands by the attempt to buy the material, conveniently didn't mention that, huh? Check the speech, the statement referred to British Intelligence .

" the botched reconstruction of New Orleans, "

New Orleans Reconstruction? Hell, that hasn't even got started yet, If you are talking about the rescue, that is what Governors, Mayors, Nation Guard under Governors is for, US is backup. They let hundreds of school busses sit and get submerged all the while crying, "Send us Busses".

" the recent scandal about ordering the NSA to spy on Americans"

Well aren't we really informed, that hasn't even been investigated yet and at least a couple of former Democratic high officials said that has been going on since Jimmy Carter, missed that also huh? An investigation will determine if anything wrong was done. It really is a scandal, trying to save the necks of the likes who say such things.

" the outing of Valerie Plame"

Incredible, the Courts haven't even ruled on this yet and it appears the consensus is that she was already "Out", the charges haven't even mentioned that to this point. All the hullabaloo from the Lefties about that minor thing and the leaking of the most highly classified document in the US Government is OK, no investigation, no condemnation, nothing, because it suits the Lefties.

More BS, you will have a good supply for spring gardening.

Walt Conner

[David Stuve]

Actually, no. I mean the McCain amendment specifically prohibiting torture. Cheney was actively lobbying to exempt the CIA from restrictions using the bizarre argument that we are A) strongly against torture, but B) want to be able to threaten to do it. That should make your BS detector go berzerk - what if your local sherrif or department store detective wanted a similar exemption, promising that he would of course never do it..... "We'd never torture a shoplifting suspect, but we need the threat of it to act as a deterrent."

If the no-bid contracts were let out under Clinton as you say, why was Cheney personally involved in handing them out after the Iraq invasion?

Cheney was obsessed with Joe Wilson, and he and "Scooter" followed his every move. I find this very paranoia unsettling behavoir, especially when combined with his fondness of torture...

The handling of New Orleans was disturbingly similar to how Cheney handled Iraq. Cheney came in to run things, and lots of out-of-state contractors got all of the work, local companies got nothing, and lots of money changed hands and people are still in desparate straits down there.

Really? They haven't released any information about who they spied on. I've seen an AP story in the last couple of days hinting that the spying was much more widespread than Bush has admitted to. What's even more bizarre is that they can retroactively get warrants within 72 hours of doing wiretapping, but they just didn't bother. That indifference to the law can't be ignored by us if we wish to remain free people.

Interesting comment - I agree that the American people have much to wake up to, but that doesn't absolve Cheney of anything. He's simply guilty of being weak and giveng into the pressure of finding the quick and easy (and usually illegal) fix. I'm looking forward to him being replaced by someone who's actually willing to do the 'hard work' to try and do the right thing.

Dave