I recently bought a Jet contractor's saw from a local Woodc... er um
retailer that displays Jet/ Powermatic. Thought it was a decent deal. The
one with two cast iron wings and the jet fence (not the biesmeyer knock off)
and got it for $650 saved about $100 (JWTS-10CW2-JF). I have an Incra fence
so that is not impoertant. As it turns out I most like ly wont be using
oneor both of the cast wings anyway and will use router extensions to
maximise use of incra and minimize garage floor space.
There is a Menards (big box) closing in the Chicago Burbs and I could get a
stamped wing version JWTS-10JF-LFR for $366+tax. I called the mgr at the
local Wood.... and told him about the opportunity and asked what he thought.
I have bought other things there and would have turned around and re-spent
the $650 on a better dc setup anyway. He told me that the difference wasn't
just the wings for $300 difference but that the motors are different. I got
the customer service # and tried to call jet on a Saturday morning only to
be greeted by a recording that they were closed. There are no differences in
specs between the two on paper and the manual in the box for the cast wing
version is even the manual for the steel version(JWTS-10JF) but no mention
of LFR suffix. Google had some mention of the LFR suffix model in Australia.
It seems to mean something compoletely different there because their version
has cast wings. (In other words yes I already checked Jet's website and
After spending ~$2K with them (on various things) I would like to hear he
gave me the straight scoop. BTW the saw I bought is still in the box.
Anyone know the story on these contracotr's saw? Do the big box version have
a lesser motor? I am pretty sure I have read about Delta doing some of that
with the models Lowe's has for example.
Thanks in advance for any insight.
Bob by Chicago.
firstname.lastname@example.org if you dont' want to post.
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:53:07 GMT, "Bob by Chicago"
I have the $599 stamped wing version, my buddy has the $799 cast wing
version, with the upgraded fence. Both have the same TEFC 1 1/2 HP
motor as my DC-1100 dust collector.
My saw was bought in 1998, his in 2001, and my DC-1100 in 2002. MY TS
motor is black, the DC and my buddy's saw have white motors. Other
than the color, the motors are identical.
I doubt the big box saw has a different motor. It _may_, but I doubt
It is possible that the motors on the tablesaws are different. I know that
the drill press motors are different--the difference is easily visible. The
Jet drill press at Menard's has an open-drip-proof motor while the same
drill press (with a higher price tag) at Woodcraft has a TEFC motor.
Which Menards is closing?
if you dont' want to post.
The ~$350 Jet CS at Menard's is different from the one I have with stamped
wings (from ~1996). It looks like a benchtop saw (i.e. no motor hanging out
I didn't look underneath the saw but I assume that it is a direct drive,
type. Certainly not enough room in there for the TEFC induction motor.
I don't believe the motors are different. I bought my JWTS-10CW2-JF over
two years ago from my local Rockler and the badge on the side of the saw
beneath the bevel crank labels it as a JWTS-10CW2-LFR ... My guess when I
noticed this model number while putting together my saw was that this is the
model number for the saw only (since the same saw is offered with several
different fence options), and that when packaged with either the JetFence or
the Xacta Fence the model number of the "package" becomes JWTS-10CW2-JF or
JWTS-10CW2-whatever Xacta is...
Good luck and have fun with it. It is a great saw.
if you dont' want to post.
Thank you to those who replied.
So here is what I found out.
It turns out to be more of a lie story from the local Woodcraft (Palatine,
IL). I finally got in touch with WMH (Jet) they confirmed that in fact
besides the cast vs. stamped wings. Otherwise the same saw exactly. Of
course the clearance saw price at the relocating Menard's is no longer an
option. It was their normal $524 less 30%. Now comes the rant as promised to
I contacted Woodcraft's national customer support Yesterday and told them I
would give them 24 hours to respond before I let the world know. There is
more. I also received an email from their corp Friday apologizing for not
having sent out a notice on a 10% off Delta sale from a couple of weeks ago
and that they would let me order anything from their website and gave me a
code for a 10% discount. I ordered a Jet 14" band saw w/cab base. They
called me early Monday morning to advise me that the discount excluded power
tools. I was in my car so I couldn't look at the original email until later
in the day. Sure enough I verified that it was not only to make up for a
missed power tool sale, but the language said " We earnestly apologize for
not sending your Delta 10% Off Sale email reminder. Please use coupon code
XXXXX to get 10% off anything at Woodcraft through Saturday, Dec. 20. Offer
not available in stores. Order by Dec. 18 to get ground shipping in time for
Christmas!" How would you read that? So I replied to their customer support
about both issues. They called back this morning and advised that they would
after all honor their 10% discount after all. The truth is because you have
to forego a normal shipping discount to use the code they sent, it really
only came out to be ~7.5% anyway. Their customer service person was very
nice but did nothing but give me reasons why the ordering staff was inept
Between the two separate issues, and having already spent the $$ for the
Table saw, a drill press and several hundred dollars worth of hot rod crap
(link belt, dial indicator, nice fence, etc.) since Thanksgiving, I declined
to reorder and deal with getting 257 pounds off the back of a semi for the
net savings plus grief. They never addressed the retail store and their
point blank lie about the inferior quality of the same tool from another
source. They said they forwarded my complaint to their retail group,
whatever that means, since it is a franchise location. I have heard nothing
I evaluate and buy automotive repair equipment for a living. In that world
even the best brand names are only as good as their distributors and they
only as good as their service and their word. Both are in the toilet as far
as I am concerned. I am tempted to take the darn thing back anyway, but
loading that beast and the drill press and everything else I have bought
there in the last month back up and telling them to stick it is more trouble
than it is worth. Caveat Emptor in north west Chicago burbs and corporately
with Woodcraft. This is very disappointing. There was nothing in the store
that would have lead one to suspicion, quite the contrary really. I was
really hoping I would have one of those " their customer service is amazing"
stories I have read about on this group occasionally.
End of rant. Thanks for listening.
Bob by Chicago.
if you dont' want to post.
This crap permeates the little stores. I hear the same thing about DeWalt
tools at HD compared to my local True Value store. The told me the HD tools
were inferior. Of course I asked "what exactly is different in them?" but
only got a blank stare, not a part number, not a material difference,
nothing. Unless someone dissects the two tools and shows me a difference in
bearings or wall thickness of the housing, or other inferior parts, they are
just full of crap. I lost all respect for the True Value guy and told him
since he was a liar I'd buy from Home Depot instead and did just that.
I absolutely agree that there are no real differences in the actual
machines when the model numbers are the same.
However, I've noticed that the larger stores (Costco, Lowes, HD)
often get slightly different packaging of the same basic tools.
For example, Cstco has a Skil Mag77 worm drive saw right now for a
lower price than either HD or Lowes - but the HD version comes with a
special carrying bag, while the lowes version has an extra long cord.
These are trivial differences, but they're enough to kill any
possibility of using the better costco price to get the 10% discount
at lowes or HD. Another common thing is to see an extension cord
included by one retailer but not another.
I actually do think the manufacturers are doing this to make it more
difficult to do direct price comparisons (perhaps at the request of
the retailers). I also think it's possible that in some cases the
differences are because of low stock turnover. My local HD, in
particular, just doesn't seem to sell a lot of tools - they always
seem to have versions of tools that are 6 months or more behind
Right, with different manufacturers stock numbers, making price
This is also done on gas grilles, appliances, lawn equipment, you name
it. <G> Take washing machine "A", add a "free" box of detergent,
and you now have a different package.
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 11:38:24 GMT, B a r r y B u r k e J r .
Agreed. However, It's also been my experience that both HD and Lowe's
will ignore minor differences if you talk to the right people. For
example, I was able to get Lowe's to match the HD price when I bought
4 large spools of conduit wire. The basic wire was essentially the
same (#12 stranded, MTW, oil-resistant, blah ...) but the brands were
different. There was actually quite a bit of money involved , and
they cheerfully did the match. However, I had to make my case to a
manager, the counter person turned me down at first.
This system was first started by Compaque Computers they were packing
systems for everybody and everybody was giving the 10% advertising crap,
thats when they would tell you it was not the same model,
I went to buy a DW about 10 years ago found a good Maytag for a decent price
at a an appliance store.
Was about to get it and then said to the wife lets go over to Circuit City
They say they are the lowest and carry this Brand.
Found what looked to be identical DW for about 50 bucks more and i nailed
the salesman and asked why the other store had it for 50 less.
SO he calles gets the model # and told me it was a differant model # Circuit
city was 0000-22 the other one was 0000 I asked what the F#$% was the
differance he showed me a small 1/4" wide trim accross the door that meant
He matched the price and then told me how they large retailers ask for these
provisions from the manufacture
Hey when the retailer slaps his checkbook on the table for large orders the
manufacture just says glad to comply sir not realizing they are whoring the
name of their own product after spening zillions advertising how good their
Keeps on Proving that money is power
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